20% of kids impoverished - yeah right - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sjh · #1 08-17-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

No disagreement from me. The issue is the target--a single mother. It could easily have been argued that the culprit in this case is the father. Here's a single mother taking responsibility, going to school and trying to raise the value of her labor. Where is the father? Why isn't he raising the child while the mother is going to school? Instead sjh decides to deride the mother who appears to be doing everything a person should do to improve their lives and care for her children.

MSNBC put her up as their poster-child - not me

It could have been any sex, any age, any color, any belief-system, etc

they just put up what they believed would be most sympathetic

an example of objective, fact-based, well-reasoned discourse from our media

don't gore me because I linked to their emotional dribble .

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sjh · #2 08-17-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

I'm no christian, but what he said is entirely correct. It has to do with responsibility which was flushed down the toilet decades ago in this society.

- Peter.

Right.

This is not a Christian thing.

It's an adult thing.

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cmac2012 · #3 08-20-2011, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

Right.

This is not a Christian thing.

It's an adult thing.

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And the Christian thing is compassion. Idiot compassion is not good, but merely taking the stance of 'you made your bed, lie in it,' may have a sort of liberating effect on he who utters it, but if such a woman gets tossed out on the street, society incurs other costs. Not saying free checks every week is the answer, it's not good for people and we can't afford it anyway.

The answers are not easy to come by but merely saying 'you should have thought of that before' is not really an answer.

sjh · #4 08-20-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

And the Christian thing is compassion.
Christianity is about one's relationship with God, not some vogue, social agenda.
Idiot compassion is not good, but merely taking the stance of 'you made your bed, lie in it,' may have a sort of liberating effect on he who utters it, but if such a woman gets tossed out on the street, society incurs other costs. Not saying free checks every week is the answer, it's not good for people and we can't afford it anyway.

The answers are not easy to come by but merely saying 'you should have thought of that before' is not really an answer.

Actually holding people, generation after generation responsible for their actions is in everyone's best interest.

The first thing that is developed in counseling, healing is learning and accepting the consequences of one's actions.

This pablum, brought to a whole new level of absurdity in the '60s, of, "aw, don't worry about it, we'll fix it" is highly corrosive.

It's probable that the woman in question, her parents/grandparents, community all failed and everyone had a way to 'justify' their actions.

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layback40 · #5 08-17-2011, 10:24 AM

I bet the child has brand new nike runners & an Iphone.
People live within their means even if they have to beg, borrow & steal to do so. There is a big difference between wants & needs !!!

The Clk Man · #6 08-17-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

I bet the child has brand new nike runners & an Iphone.
People live within their means even if they have to beg, borrow & steal to do so. There is a big difference between wants & needs !!!

They were times in my life when I had to dig in dumpsters at 14 yo to find food, and the kicker was that my mother had lots of money including $250 a month because my dad was a disabled war vet. My mother and step father spent every nickle my sister and I received from our dad. so I know how it is to starve and have to wear the same flea market clothes everyday to school. Kids today need to have their a$$es kicked and be made to get by on what their parents give them. Sorry for the rant.

to this day I buy my clothes at yard sales and the Salvation army.

Yak · #7 08-17-2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

I bet the child has brand new nike runners & an Iphone.
People live within their means even if they have to beg, borrow & steal to do so. There is a big difference between wants & needs !!!

I'm puzzled how begging, borrowing and/or stealing equates to living within means? Isn't it the opposite?

If I need to beg, borrow or steal in order to satisfy either needs or wants, then doesn't that mean I have an unsustainable lifestyle and am exceeding my means?

And, although I'm just guessing, I really doubt a 5 year old has a new iPhone. Possible, but unlikely. I bet she's got the 16Gb iPad, that's what all the welfare queens are buying their tots these days.

elchivito · #8 08-17-2011, 06:53 PM

Guy hasn't got the cojones in 500 plus words of equivocation to tell me directly that I'm gonna burn in hell because I reject Jesus but he sure turns into a tough guy when it's some girl on a news website who can't answer back. Fail.

Botnst · #9 08-17-2011, 08:57 PM

Paradoxically, obesity is fast becoming the #1 health threat to children, especially among the poor.

Carbohydrates and fats are cheap in our culture.

MTUpower · #10 08-17-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Paradoxically, obesity is fast becoming the #1 health threat to children, especially among the poor.

Carbohydrates and fats are cheap in our culture.

Understanding the futurity of your actions is not a strong suit of the poor.

Hatterasguy · #11 08-17-2011, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Paradoxically, obesity is fast becoming the #1 health threat to children, especially among the poor.

Carbohydrates and fats are cheap in our culture.

Yeah I really noticed that, plus sugar filled drinks like Monster and soda.

Yak · #12 08-17-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

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Study: 1 in 5 American children lives in poverty

Starting our day with the daily whine from the MSM. Good ole MSNBC leads the way.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44171347/ns/today-today_news/t/study-american-children-lives-poverty/

First snippet sums it up nicely --

Karla Washington worries how she will afford new school uniforms for her five-year-old daughter.
Washington, an undergraduate student, earns less than $11,000 a year from a part-time university job. The salary must cover food, rent, health care, child care and the occasional splurge on a Blue's Clues item for her only child.
"My biggest fear is not providing my daughter with everything that she needs to be a balanced child, to be independent, to be safe, to feel like she is of value," said Washington, 41.

What's a single 41 year-old women with extremely limited job skills doing trying to raise a family.

Some time in the past 20+ years she needed to look in the mirror and say if I want to accomplish this in my live I need to do some things different.

She didn't make wise choices and now I get to cry while eating my cereal.

Actions/decisions have consequences.

Welcome to life.

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First, I commend you for listening and/or reading from perspectives with which you clearly disagree. It indicates a certain open-mindedness. Unless, of course, it's only in order to find things about which to complain; then it would indicate some sort of pettiness.

I am, however, puzzled by the logic your comments take in this thread.

You begin by dismissing the statistic of 20% in poverty as the title of the thread. Do you disagree? Do you think there are more or less? Was the Annie E. Casey study somehow tainted by being reported about in the media? You did read the study and see that's 2009 data, right? So it's probably even higher now.

You select a quote from the article. In that quote a single mother describes her concerns about raising her child. Are those also not your own concerns when you wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

She clearly needed to submit to a number of things, discipline, education, rigor, delayed gratfication, embracing wisdom & maturity, etc.

We raise 3 generation of people of people living 25+ years as adolescence who then want others to solve their problems.

The obsessive preoccupation with self, its aggrandizement and appetites is NOT the sign of adulthood, which is in itself a submission, a subsuming of one aspect of self to develop another aspect of self.

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Her concerns are for her child, not herself. In the past, perhaps, she was pre-occupied with self. Now she is seeking education, attempting to raise a child, devoting herself to another. Are these not values that you also propose? Did they come to her too late, and are therefore worthless? Is there a "you must be mature and responsible not later than age" after which you become worthless?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

Right.

This is not a Christian thing.

It's an adult thing.

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Is what you're doing in this thread the Christian thing, or the adult thing?

I recommend Matthew 7:1-5 for guidance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

MSNBC put her up as their poster-child - not me

It could have been any sex, any age, any color, any belief-system, etc

they just put up what they believed would be most sympathetic

an example of objective, fact-based, well-reasoned discourse from our media

don't gore me because I linked to their emotional dribble .

.

Are you asking that people not disagree with you about an article that you linked to in OD? Really? I thought you put up the article as a "poster child" for your opinions in order to engage in an enlightening discussion. Is there something in the article that is not objective or fact based? Would a single 30 year old white male christian change your opinion? Okay, substitute those characteristics, now what? Is the poor white single dad christian still worthy of your scorn?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

pretty picture

For 50 years people have been exposed to persuasion by repetition, volume and emotion

it's what they have been taught

when someone states this is my position because of 1, 2, 3

the only response most know is to hold up their picket sign, whether literally or metaphorically, and wave, yell and protest

that's the limit of their ability to discourse

it's what they have been taught - it's not their fault

when a PhD (I think) humanities professor engages in this method then it is disheartening, not only because it indicates the depths to which the discipline has sunk but also because he teaches this to his students

have no concern for me my friend, with what I have been through this is nothing - thank you though

ahh, the doe-eyed women, you are a wise man

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So you've studied educational methods then? A real pedagogue.

I do see some frequent posters in OD who are limited in discourse. The response above, for example, lacks structure and coherence. I doubt this would pass muster in a humanities course taught by a PhD. It might, however, fit on a picket sign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

It's actually been very helpful.

I had been taking high levels of multiple drugs for much of the past year.

I've meet quite a few people that I'd enjoy getting to know better.

The antagonists, particularly the emotion-driven, irrational ones are sort of like sparring in the dojo before a tournament.

It flexes my mind, pushes me sometimes (not often enough, though Honus is fun to engage) and also allows me to acknowledge my errors, make corrections, practice inter-personal skills, and when required to be humble and apologize.

It's somewhat dis-heartening how few others are sufficiently at ease or seeking self-awareness to be able to 'acknowledge errors, make corrections and apologize.'
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Clearly you enjoy the exercise, because you engage so frequently. I do think you need more practice though. More flexing, more acknowledging. I would suggest, though, that perhaps the sensei has lost control of your dojo on more than one occasion.

sjh · #13 08-17-2011, 11:12 PM

.

Well, isn't this fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

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You begin by dismissing the statistic of 20% in poverty as the title of the thread. Do you disagree? ....

1. I greatly doubt the accuracy of the data. What is called poor is highly subjective and contextual. It, like the VAST majority of studies down in the humanities is a thinly veiled propaganda piece pretending to be objective.

2. People who are not in a position to be able to raise children in a healthy loving manner should be dis-incentivized from pro-creating. Extending the largess that society does encourages more dysfunctionality.

3. Do you really want to discuss the dominant message of Christianity? The Sermon on the Mount which Jesus gave prior to his resurrection is intended to show the futility of trying to live by Mosaic law. It's purpose is to say, you are not able to fulfill what Moses commanded you and I tell you that if you want to repair your rupture with God the Law of Moses is not enough, this is what you must do to have a Law-based covenant. The purpose is to show that no one can succeed on that basis. Jesus, then offers a new way, His crucifixation and resurrection.

4. I do not care if that women or anyone else wears polka-dots and dances upside-down... Until she comes to me and says, "hey I, my parents, my community, the inane values from the PC culture are a mess -- I want you to pay for these errors." Ain't gonna happen.

Write more.

This is fun.

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t walgamuth · #14 08-17-2011, 11:18 PM

I know a single mom who is thirty and has three kids. Sounds a lot like his example so far.

It so happens that she is divorced from a man who she was married to for seven years. He was a traditional christian so forbade her to work outside the home and she submitted.

Turns out he is an alcoholic and a controlling SOB. Her family silently hoped that she would get away from him but kept still for the most part.

Finally after listening to his lies about quitting drinking and enduring his womanizing and belittling of her she got the courage to divorce him.

So now here she is raising three lovely children and financially very vulnerable. She did manage to get a good job though and is now dating a man who treats her with respect.

Oh yes, and one more thing.....

Her children are my grandchildren.

elchivito · #15 08-17-2011, 11:31 PM

I suspect we can all tell those tales. I am very close with a former student. An exceedingly bright girl, member of an ethnic minority, who screwed up in her youth and had a child at 15 and another at 17. Her family unable to help, she existed and raised her kids on public assistance while attending junior college and working full time. She is now a lawyer who works for an agency that helps girls in the same position she was in. Without public assistance, she wouldn't have made it. An intellect wasted.
It's real easy for those who haven't suffered the indignity of public aid to scoff and pass judgement. The reality is much sadder, and much more complicated.
Simple minds seek simple solutions.