20% of kids impoverished - yeah right - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

elchivito · #1 08-18-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

Originally Posted by elchivito "... I suspect we can all tell those tales...."

Don't we all want these types of successes both for all who have slipped and for our tax dollars?

I contend the issue is more the overall consequences of our current policies and that there are far superior ways to accomplish shared goals.

--

Originally Posted by elchivito ...
'It's real easy for those who haven't suffered the indignity of public aid to scoff and pass judgement. The reality is much sadder, and much more complicated. Simple minds seek simple solutions.'

Fail to see how examining social policy and economic economic consequences is being judgmental. Society, makes decisions, examines, evaluates, discusses, etc.

Your attempt to 'muzzle' my perspective, to reduce it to the level of the absurd or inane or reprehensible, doesn't address my comments. It just means you don't think much of me. Join the list.

Oh, you know nothing of my torturous journey. Assuming it to be one thing or another so you may argue thusly is indicative of 'Simple minds seek[ing] simple solutions.'

.

I'm not attempting to muzzle anything, merely responding in my fashion. Once again we get a dose of your torturous journey and how nobody likes you and boo hoo. Discussion with you has too many conditions so I won't be doing it. I will however comment whenever and however I decide to within the guidelines set forth here. You have options if you don't like it.

tjts1 · #2 08-18-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

I'm not attempting to muzzle anything, merely responding in my fashion. Once again we get a dose of your torturous journey and how nobody likes you and boo hoo. Discussion with you has too many conditions so I won't be doing it. I will however comment whenever and however I decide to within the guidelines set forth here. You have options if you don't like it.

SJH's comments are officially sanctioned by Jesus. You don't want to get into a argument with Jesus now do you... punk?
[IMG]http://****ups.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/angrychrist.jpg[/IMG]

MTUpower · #3 08-18-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

SJH's comments are officially sanctioned by Jesus. You don't want to get into a argument with Jesus now do you... punk? ... (some derogatory image posted which I deleted- I'm sure anyone interested can find it).

You seem to "comment" on where you think people get there views from with images you scrounge up searching the internet quite often. That to me indicates you cannot step up to the level of actually responding to the arguments posted validity itself.

MTUpower · #4 08-18-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

... Discussion with you has too many conditions so I won't be doing it. ...

Sounds like the conditions are not for the simple minded if I say so myself. From my view he asks you to respond to his specific comments, not about what or where you think he gets his views from. Care to discuss my response to your "example"?

sjh · #5 08-18-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Sounds like the conditions are not for the simple minded if I say so myself. From my view he asks you to respond to his specific comments, not about what or where you think he gets his views from. Care to discuss my response to your "example"?

Thanks man.

I am far from perfect in many ways.

But from time-to-time I ask a valid question and some here just try to steam-roll me instead of dealing with the question.

You better watch out, you'll be tainted by association.

Thanks again.

.

sjh · #6 08-18-2011, 01:42 PM

I am so at ease speaking of the Bible and what it says. But this is not a seminary and anyone who wishes knows my beliefs.

However, some folks take excerpts, with apparently no grasp of the context, of what is actually being said, and use that to support their argument.

I don't mean something exotic and only the 'special folks' can understand. I mean basic comprehension.

---

Repeatedly references are made to the Sermon on the Mount. OK >>

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

...The Sermon on the Mount which Jesus gave prior to his resurrection is intended to show the futility of trying to live by Mosaic law. It's purpose is to say, you are not able to fulfill what Moses commanded you and I tell you that if you want to repair your rupture with God the Law of Moses is not enough, this is what you must do to have a Law-based covenant. The purpose is to show that no one can succeed on that basis. Jesus, then offers a new way, His crucifixation and resurrection....

The message of the Bible is about a relationship with God, not advocating someone's preferred social agenda.

.

MTUpower · #7 08-19-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

Thanks man.

I am far from perfect in many ways.

But from time-to-time I ask a valid question and some here just try to steam-roll me instead of dealing with the question.

You better watch out, you'll be tainted by association.

Thanks again.

.

Your welcome- but I'm not on anyone's "side" as some (not saying you) seem to think. As an independent voter and person I try to see things which make little logical sense and question them. You do introduce jesus's views when unasked- but I could care less. You do also talk about your health issues- but it seems to say that if you make a mistake it could be related to the fact you are in recovery and taking medication which influences your speaking. That's a good thing to preface comments IMHO.
What I do see is others who obviously dislike you or your comments attempt to belittle you via what they may think is a weak spot- your religious views. It shows them to be of incapable of defeating the logic of your comments and respond in an intelligent manner. If anyone looks at the majority of attacks on you it's clear this is true.

sjh · #8 08-19-2011, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Your welcome- but I'm not on anyone's "side" as some (not saying you) seem to think. As an independent voter and person I try to see things which make little logical sense and question them. You do introduce jesus's views when unasked- but I could care less. You do also talk about your health issues- but it seems to say that if you make a mistake it could be related to the fact you are in recovery and taking medication which influences your speaking. That's a good thing to preface comments IMHO.
What I do see is others who obviously dislike you or your comments attempt to belittle you via what they may think is a weak spot- your religious views. It shows them to be of incapable of defeating the logic of your comments and respond in an intelligent manner. If anyone looks at the majority of attacks on you it's clear this is true.

All fair comments.

Actually, I have made a very deliberate effort to only express my religious views in response when other's raise them.

I also have a number of times apologized, complimented others, stated that I was wrong, retracted statements and corrected errors.

I have been off medication for a number of weeks and can exercise about 3 days a week. I have less brain fog each day. By the end of the month I'm hopeful of being able to go extended periods without 'crashing.'

I still think your encouraging of 'basic decency' warrants positive reinforcement.

Thanks.

.

The Clk Man · #9 08-19-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh

Thanks man.

I am far from perfect in many ways.

But from time-to-time I ask a valid question and some here just try to steam-roll me instead of dealing with the question.

You better watch out, you'll be tainted by association.

Thanks again.

.

That's an understatement.

sjh · #10 08-19-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

That's an understatement.

look who's having fun

.

elchivito · #11 08-18-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Sounds like the conditions are not for the simple minded if I say so myself. From my view he asks you to respond to his specific comments, not about what or where you think he gets his views from. Care to discuss my response to your "example"?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, makes no nevermind to me. I would merely point you to several threads in which there were hundreds of words used to elaborate his position on why he could or couldn't have a discussion with someone based on their usage of terms, not to mention the tedious belaboring of his heroic life changes. This is a forum, not a class. There is no quiz tomorrow.

MTUpower · #12 08-19-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, makes no nevermind to me. I would merely point you to several threads in which there were hundreds of words used to elaborate his position on why he could or couldn't have a discussion with someone based on their usage of terms, not to mention the tedious belaboring of his heroic life changes. This is a forum, not a class. There is no quiz tomorrow.

When people respond and ask to clarify, or speak in advance so that it'll be clear what exactly they are responding to, that's good- it makes the issue clearer. I see no such thing with your speaking. Instead I see a reluctance to engage. I asked you to respond to my comments about the girl you spoke of and you came up with this- which reinforces my previous point. Care to comment about my response as I asked or will you go off tangent again?

elchivito · #13 08-19-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Sounds like the conditions are not for the simple minded if I say so myself. From my view he asks you to respond to his specific comments, not about what or where you think he gets his views from. Care to discuss my response to your "example"?

Sure. You said, in part:
Could those same people as shown in this example make it with private non profit help? The answers to those questions boils down to individuals' answers- and my answer is the government use of my money is wasted by in large. It was not wasted on her, and so if we could give more money to private non profit help of our choice instead of the to the government we would have more control of it and get better results. Your choice is that my money- and perhaps yours- it best spent by the government, and my choice is that it is not. Yet you want to dictate to me how my money is spent- which I strongly disagree with.

What makes you think I want to dictate how your money is spent? I'd appreciate it if you'd not lump me into some sort of imaginary leftist mind set. You will find after careful reading of my statements that I have not taken exception to the fact that a welfare/entitlement subculture exists in this country. I merely put forth the idea that the causes and solutions are complicated. That it's a self perpetuating trap is pretty evident. When you claim that my choice is that your money is best spent by the government, you are putting words into my mouth that I didn't say, and I don't appreciate it. Talk about assumptions. Unless of course you can quote where I said that, in which case I will stand corrected.

MTUpower · #14 08-19-2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Sure. You said, in part:
Could those same people as shown in this example make it with private non profit help? The answers to those questions boils down to individuals' answers- and my answer is the government use of my money is wasted by in large. It was not wasted on her, and so if we could give more money to private non profit help of our choice instead of the to the government we would have more control of it and get better results. Your choice is that my money- and perhaps yours- it best spent by the government, and my choice is that it is not. Yet you want to dictate to me how my money is spent- which I strongly disagree with.

What makes you think I want to dictate how your money is spent? I'd appreciate it if you'd not lump me into some sort of imaginary leftist mind set. You will find after careful reading of my statements that I have not taken exception to the fact that a welfare/entitlement subculture exists in this country. I merely put forth the idea that the causes and solutions are complicated. That it's a self perpetuating trap is pretty evident. When you claim that my choice is that your money is best spent by the government, you are putting words into my mouth that I didn't say, and I don't appreciate it. Talk about assumptions. Unless of course you can quote where I said that, in which case I will stand corrected.

Your whole argument with this post-

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

I suspect we can all tell those tales. I am very close with a former student. ...

-supports government use of funds to help her. That's my money. I don't want it spent in this manner- even if it is a excellent example. I believe she could have gotten the same result using private non profit help. Do I have your view wrong?

elchivito · #15 08-19-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Your whole argument with this post- -supports government use of funds to help her. That's my money. I don't want it spent in this manner- even if it is a excellent example. I believe she could have gotten the same result using private non profit help. Do I have your view wrong?

If you believe I'm generalizing this to an entire class of people, yes you do. I told a story about one successful person who had the benefit of "your money". Except it wasn't your money. It was tribal assistance paid for by casino proceeds. Could she have had the same result using non profit help? Sure, if such assistance was available, in a perfect world. Personally, I'd like to see an outcome based system of support for these folks who really want to get out of the cycle. The dole clearly isn't working. If we suddenly decided to stop the system altogether though, we'd still pay for them one way or another.