Sounds like the conditions are not for the simple minded if I say so myself. From my view he asks you to respond to his specific comments, not about what or where you think he gets his views from. Care to discuss my response to your "example"?

Thanks man.

I am far from perfect in many ways.

But from time-to-time I ask a valid question and some here just try to steam-roll me instead of dealing with the question.

You better watch out, you'll be tainted by association.

Thanks again.

.

I am so at ease speaking of the Bible and what it says. But this is not a seminary and anyone who wishes knows my beliefs.

However, some folks take excerpts, with apparently no grasp of the context, of what is actually being said, and use that to support their argument.

I don't mean something exotic and only the 'special folks' can understand. I mean basic comprehension.

---

Repeatedly references are made to the Sermon on the Mount. OK >>

The message of the Bible is about a relationship with God, not advocating someone's preferred social agenda.

.

Your welcome- but I'm not on anyone's "side" as some (not saying you) seem to think. As an independent voter and person I try to see things which make little logical sense and question them. You do introduce jesus's views when unasked- but I could care less. You do also talk about your health issues- but it seems to say that if you make a mistake it could be related to the fact you are in recovery and taking medication which influences your speaking. That's a good thing to preface comments IMHO.
What I do see is others who obviously dislike you or your comments attempt to belittle you via what they may think is a weak spot- your religious views. It shows them to be of incapable of defeating the logic of your comments and respond in an intelligent manner. If anyone looks at the majority of attacks on you it's clear this is true.

All fair comments.

Actually, I have made a very deliberate effort to only express my religious views in response when other's raise them.

I also have a number of times apologized, complimented others, stated that I was wrong, retracted statements and corrected errors.

I have been off medication for a number of weeks and can exercise about 3 days a week. I have less brain fog each day. By the end of the month I'm hopeful of being able to go extended periods without 'crashing.'

I still think your encouraging of 'basic decency' warrants positive reinforcement.

Thanks.

.

That's an understatement.

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For the unSaved, this world is the best it will ever get.

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You are certainly entitled to your opinion, makes no nevermind to me. I would merely point you to several threads in which there were hundreds of words used to elaborate his position on why he could or couldn't have a discussion with someone based on their usage of terms, not to mention the tedious belaboring of his heroic life changes. This is a forum, not a class. There is no quiz tomorrow.

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1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
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When people respond and ask to clarify, or speak in advance so that it'll be clear what exactly they are responding to, that's good- it makes the issue clearer. I see no such thing with your speaking. Instead I see a reluctance to engage. I asked you to respond to my comments about the girl you spoke of and you came up with this- which reinforces my previous point. Care to comment about my response as I asked or will you go off tangent again?

Sure. You said, in part:
Could those same people as shown in this example make it with private non profit help? The answers to those questions boils down to individuals' answers- and my answer is the government use of my money is wasted by in large. It was not wasted on her, and so if we could give more money to private non profit help of our choice instead of the to the government we would have more control of it and get better results. Your choice is that my money- and perhaps yours- it best spent by the government, and my choice is that it is not. Yet you want to dictate to me how my money is spent- which I strongly disagree with.

What makes you think I want to dictate how your money is spent? I'd appreciate it if you'd not lump me into some sort of imaginary leftist mind set. You will find after careful reading of my statements that I have not taken exception to the fact that a welfare/entitlement subculture exists in this country. I merely put forth the idea that the causes and solutions are complicated. That it's a self perpetuating trap is pretty evident. When you claim that my choice is that your money is best spent by the government, you are putting words into my mouth that I didn't say, and I don't appreciate it. Talk about assumptions. Unless of course you can quote where I said that, in which case I will stand corrected.

__________________
You're a daisy if you do.
__________________________________
84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Your whole argument with this post- -supports government use of funds to help her. That's my money. I don't want it spent in this manner- even if it is a excellent example. I believe she could have gotten the same result using private non profit help. Do I have your view wrong?

If you believe I'm generalizing this to an entire class of people, yes you do. I told a story about one successful person who had the benefit of "your money". Except it wasn't your money. It was tribal assistance paid for by casino proceeds. Could she have had the same result using non profit help? Sure, if such assistance was available, in a perfect world. Personally, I'd like to see an outcome based system of support for these folks who really want to get out of the cycle. The dole clearly isn't working. If we suddenly decided to stop the system altogether though, we'd still pay for them one way or another.

__________________
You're a daisy if you do.
__________________________________
84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

My goal when I first posted was to ...

1. Question the 20% figure - I'm the guy who sees the bum with the I-pod and encounters cognitive dissonance.

2. Point out that enabling sub-optimal behavior increases its occurrence.

3. To not discuss anecdotal events, the tragic woman in the story, but examine reasons for these sub-optimal behaviors.

I post an important contention and do not hear it accepted or rejected. To me it is quite fundamental to the discussion. --

Who is responsible for me

1. Me
2. My parents
3. My community; defined by shared-values/activities/associations
4. My culture/society
5. My government

Now go through the list from 1 to 5 and determine where the breakdown(s) occurred.

After one address 1 through 4 then come take my money via the government in step 5.

Which while outside the scope of this thread- brings us to the next point: if we'd still pay for them one way or another- why are we letting more people come into the country? It's not working. I have to pay for more and more people and I'm getting more and more behind. I'm one of the people who pull the cart and instead of making policies which help me and those like me, the country is helping make it easier to not pull the cart and let more onto the cart so my load is heavier. You are correct the dole is not working. I'd also like to see a outcome based system and if things don't change now they never will. Your arguments are consistently on the left and that's not working. The right view works only a small percentage of the time- very small. The country needs more people in the middle and to help those pulling the cart- not those riding on it.

LETTING? We pay people to try to stop them. You might be able to get a job doing that.

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