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  #1  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
I have no such evidence, other than anecdotal. However, I do not suppose that it does not exist. Nor do I understand why obtaining and using ID would be so difficult or fear inducing for a legal citizen, who on every other day before and after election day, circulates in society as a free citizen.
Here are some non-anecdotal reasons why it's hard to get. Texas is a big state under budget constraints. Some counties are so sparsely populated that it's not cost effective to have a driver's license office in the county so they closed them, so you have to travel to another county. Since you don't have a current driver's license, that means someone has to drive you. That's a round trip for two, on a work day, of a few hundred miles in order to get an ID recognized by the new state law.

You could argue that another form of legal photo ID should suffice, as was done in the TX legislature, but they specifically EXCLUDED student ID's from Texas universities and tribal IDs from Native American tribes (recognized by DHS to board airplanes, though) when they ADDED the Texas Concealed Handgun License as a valid form of ID for voting.

The current law requires you to show your voter card - which is mailed to your home of record - or, if you don't have that, THEN you show a photo ID and the they match you against the rolls.

So people who were registered, had voted in the past, and who have current valid photo IDs valid for nearly every purpose except voting now need to get a new ID.

Or they can simply claim a religious belief in not having your picture taken and vote anyway without a photo ID.

I think it's a great law and a wonderful use of the millions of dollars spent on drafting, defending, advertising the new rules, and disrupting the electoral schedule just to possibly reduce the likelihood of one person voting in place of her dead mother - in which case she probably looked like her mom's photo anyway.

It's not like they could have looked at absentee ballot fraud, or something. Gotta spot impersonation at the polls!
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:59 PM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
my only take on this is: one may vote if they are a citizen of legal age, thus not encumbered by a restriction such as a felony conviction. And, id is issued for many reasons and required for the most mundane matters of practicing commerce, which basically anyone may do. Thus, it does not seem onerous to provide an ID during the period of practicing the right to vote, which has a higher standard of restriction than that of commerce.
Felony disenfranchisement is not the norm, despite the widespread belief that it is. IIRC there are only three states that deny voting rights to felons for life. Most states the right to vote is restored after the felon completes his/her sentence. Kentucky, Virginia and Florida having the lifetime ban.
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
Felony disenfranchisement is not the norm, despite the widespread belief that it is. IIRC there are only three states that deny voting rights to felons for life. Most states the right to vote is restored after the felon completes his/her sentence. Kentucky, Virginia and Florida having the lifetime ban.
If your perception of the franchise differs from another persons, why should she adopt your perception? Or vice-versa?

Wouldn't it be more parsimonious to accept the difference and proceed to alleviate or ameliorate the perceived problem?
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:06 PM
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It is a real issue, with arguments on both sides.

Count me as one who sees no reason for electronic methods to cast votes. The Constitution allows PLENTY of time to count the ballots. Its only our lack of patience that compels this desire for immediate results. I see too much opportunity for mischief with electronic voting machines, but a real "paper trail" is needed to have any assurance in the votes. Electronic machines can be hacked, and if they only recount what is in their memory, there is no way to independently audit the votes.

Texas must be one messed up state.
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  #5  
Old 05-08-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
It is a real issue, with arguments on both sides.

Count me as one who sees no reason for electronic methods to cast votes. The Constitution allows PLENTY of time to count the ballots. Its only our lack of patience that compels this desire for immediate results. I see too much opportunity for mischief with electronic voting machines, but a real "paper trail" is needed to have any assurance in the votes. Electronic machines can be hacked, and if they only recount what is in their memory, there is no way to independently audit the votes.

Texas must be one messed up state.
I agree entirely. The ATM style voting machine can be (and quite possibly has been) the vehicle for large scale voter fraud and anyone professing concern about voter fraud should be squarely opposed to them.

Who makes those things anyway.....and what PACs do they support...
Diebold, Electronic Voting and the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy

be better off with a slot machine...
Las Vegas Slots Versus Electronic Voting Machines | Prose Before Hos
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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

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  #6  
Old 05-08-2012, 12:55 PM
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I'm with you Paul. Who cares if unqualified people get to vote? They have to live here and pay taxes here, too so they should have an equal voice. Let them all through!
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  #7  
Old 05-08-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I'm with you Paul. Who cares if unqualified people get to vote? They have to live here and pay taxes here, too so they should have an equal voice. Let them all through!
As long as they're American citizens, and reside within the jurisdiction of the polling place, dammit we just have to let them in. Even the Democrats...
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:49 PM
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As long as they're American citizens, and reside within the jurisdiction of the polling place, dammit we just have to let them in. Even the Democrats...
How do you know they're American citizens? How do you know where they live?
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  #9  
Old 05-08-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
How do you know they're American citizens? How do you know where they live?
Well, we can have them show some ID...
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  #10  
Old 05-09-2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
How do you know they're American citizens? How do you know where they live?
We could waterboard them....
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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

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  #11  
Old 05-08-2012, 01:22 PM
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Having read the opinion piece in the link the OP provides, the conspiracy themes run so deep as to blur the fact that there's no direct evidence of such, but plenty of what might best be called "seven degrees" type writing. A writer can link any theory to any event with enough creativity . . . coupled with a reader's lack of skepticism.
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  #12  
Old 05-08-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Seems like a comprehensive plan to steal elections is in place. Some of this may be over-reach, but the author documents his allegations. Still, I do not see an answer to the criticism often posted here concerning the number required to affect an election and the penalties for voter fraud. Perhaps the penalties do not matter because they are rarely enforced. I can't remember hearing prosecution of voter fraud cases.

The Left?s National Vote Fraud Strategy Exposed
Are you kidding me?

Documents his allegations?!? Did you look at them objectively? Did you seek out possible alternative explanations for what he cites as facts or evidence? Just because someone says "according to..." it's not documentation. This about as one-sided a hack job as can possibly exist.

It's comical. ACORN! ACORN! ACORN! I think there was bet to see how many times he could put that in the piece.

Here's the summary: There's a liberal/progressive/socialistic/KGB-like nationwide plot! In order to fight back you need to join our decent, freedom-loving, American nationwide plot, err, I mean, group!

Don't listen to the left-wing echo chamber - they lie! Sign up for fair, accurate and unbiased reporting (see, it says that in the title, so it must true) from our conservative, freedom-loving websites from the clarion of truth!

This is the lead paragraph from a site that touts (and I'm not kidding) "fairness, balance and accuracy" in its reporting. Man, I'd hate to see a biased report from these guys.

Quote:
This report reveals the Left’s vote fraud strategy for the 2012 elections. Like a KGB operation, it is thorough, multi-faceted and redundant. It has overt and covert, illegal and legal elements, the latter of which are designed, at least in part, to facilitate illegal activities later. It is a deliberate, premeditated, comprehensive plan to win the 2012 presidential election at all costs, and is in keeping with the organizational methods, associations and ethics of the Community-Organizer-in-Chief, Barack Obama.
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  #13  
Old 05-08-2012, 08:29 PM
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Why not just ask people if they're qualified instead of all of this rigamarole. I mean, nobody would lie and try to conceal anything, would they?
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  #14  
Old 05-08-2012, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I mean, nobody would lie and try to conceal anything, would they?
No, nobody would lie. Everybody tells the truth.
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2012, 10:57 PM
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Motorcoach for sale or rent.
For a modicum of fifty cents.
No photo-id, not citizenship,
King of the Frauds!"

(as I go off on Dudesky's motor coach)
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