Gun Banning perspective... - Page 14 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

davidmash · #**196** 12-25-2012, 01:17 PM

Seems to me that if we have over 8,000 gun homicides each year that the argument that we have adequate gun control laws seems a bit weak. Seems obvious to me that the laws that are in place are quite inefective.

The NRA seems to be far more concerned with getting more members and guns and quite unconcerned about coming up with ideas to prevent access to weapons for the folks who should not have them.

Diesel911 · #**197** 12-25-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Anti gun folks are trying to preserve their right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

They definitely believe in the second, but seem plenty willing to accept restrictions on other enumerated rights.

Are not other amendments already restricted? The 1st and 4th come immediately to mind.

Following My own version of the pursuit of happiness let us assume the worst (well almost the worst). Lets suppose that I had a Vault with a bunch of Assault Weapons (not to be confused with a real Assault Rifle) and I have a big Pile of pre- ban 30 and even some 40 round/Shot Magazines and added to that I have some 100 round/shot Drum Type Magazines.

We will toss in that I have some of the Hand Guns they used to sell that had 18 shot Magazines.

Yet I had never had any violations of the Law and all of the Guns and accessories were legally owned.

How would the above situation effect any ones elses liberty or the pursuit of happiness.

I think I read that the Pro-gun People have had success using the 10th Amendment as an additional defence.

elchivito · #**198** 12-25-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I agree with the above. If you go to a Shooting Range and watch People Shooting Hand Gun maybe 1/5 of the People would have extreme difficulty hitting Human torso sized target at even 25 Yards with a Hand Gun. And, that is a stationary Target and the Shooter is in no rush.

Someone who has never fired a Rifle before would have difficulty hitting a Stationary Target at 100 Yards unless they were exceptionally good at following instructions and in a good steady positiion (meaning not standing).

An extreme expert Hand Gunner would not be able to hit a 100 yard stationary target if His or Her's gun had non-adjustable sights that were sighted in for 25 yards with out an extreme amount of practice; and maybe then still not able to hit it reliably.

Hand Guns that Have adjustable Sights likely do not have enough adjustment on them to be sighted in at 100 yards.

+1
Saying it's easy or that most people can do it is just bragging. Add the stress of a firefight with an enraged, batsh it nuts shooter and someone who is not well practiced and professionally trained (I don't mean going out one saturday a month and shooting 50 rounds at paper) is going to piss their pants and be lucky not to shoot themselves.

Diesel911 · #**199** 12-25-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Seems to me that if we have over 8,000 gun homicides each year that the argument that we have adequate gun control laws seems a bit weak. Seems obvious to me that the laws that are in place are quite inefective.

The ERA seems to be far more concerned with getting more members and guns and quite unconcerned about coming up with ideas to prevent access to weapons for the folks who should not have them.

The thought behind this is that if there had been no Gun available there would have been no Murder.
To believe this you would also have to believe that the Murderer would not have used another means to Murder.

There is plenty of Gun Laws but they are not being enforced effectively. Unfortunately it is partly an economic issue. Write a letter to the Bureau of Tobacco and Firearms and ask them if the feel they have enough Officers, equipment or funds to do their job effectively.

Do the same with your Police Department or your local Prosecutor.
The People in the NRA do want illegal gun uses heavily punished but they cannot motivate the Politicos to do that and are also too busy defending themselves from more un-enforceable Gun Laws.

Arn't you outraged that the Forces that are supposed to protect you and your Loved Ones are not funded well enouh?

Did the President of the US go on Air and talk about how his Party is going to increase Funds for Law Enforcement or Criminal Prosecution or did He did he speak of more Gun Control?
I mean Our Country spend Billions overseas but cannot properly fund Law Enforcment?
The answer is our Leaders do not really care. They would rather attack the soft target; the Law Abiding Gun owner, erode the US constitution and increase their power from the erosion.

t walgamuth · #**200** 12-25-2012, 01:58 PM

i believe he simply said we have to do more than we are doing now to prevent the sort of tragedies which we have been experiencing.

jplinville · #**201** 12-25-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

So out of a random selection of 1000 people, how many do you suppose could do it?

Actually it would not be that easy to do with an ordinary rifle with iron sights....for someone who has not practiced and had some training.

That's odd...my son did it with my Mosin resting on a beanbag rest about a week ago. I guess this makes him extraordinary..

jplinville · #**202** 12-25-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

That's odd...my son did it with my Mosin resting on a beanbag rest about a week ago. I guess this makes him extraordinary..

To be fair, I had already sighted it in for him...all he had to do was be told what to aim for and squeeze the trigger.

davidmash · #**203** 12-25-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

The thought behind this is that if there had been no Gun available there would have been no Murder.
To believe this you would also have to believe that the Murderer would not have used another means to Murder.

There is plenty of Gun Laws but they are not being enforced effectively. Unfortunately it is partly an economic issue. Write a letter to the Bureau of Tobacco and Firearms and ask them if the feel they have enough Officers, equipment or funds to do their job effectively.

Do the same with your Police Department or your local Prosecutor.
The People in the NRA do want illegal gun uses heavily punished but they cannot motivate the Politicos to do that and are also too busy defending themselves from more un-enforceable Gun Laws.

Arn't you outraged that the Forces that are supposed to protect you and your Loved Ones are not funded well enouh?

Did the President of the US go on Air and talk about how his Party is going to increase Funds for Law Enforcement or Criminal Prosecution or did He did he speak of more Gun Control?
I mean Our Country spend Billions overseas but cannot properly fund Law Enforcment?
The answer is our Leaders do not really care. They would rather attack the soft target; the Law Abiding Gun owner, erode the US constitution and increase their power from the erosion.

There are plenty of nations where access to guns is limited and there is not an over abundance of bombs or other devices being used to murder. Using guns is easy. Making an effort to assemble a bomb or some other device takes more effort and knowledge. I do believe that lack of access to guns but those who wish to commit a crime will indeed reduce the amount of gun violence. Knives are not nearly as effective or clean. Explosives tend to hurt the one with the explosive and not many want to go out with their victims.

In Texas the laws are quite lax and I have not heard anything about the NRA seeking to strengthen the laws. I can walk up to anyone selling a gun, give them money and walk away with a gun. No questions need to be asked.

Wanting things punished after the fact may be nice but it is quite reactionary. I would rather see the NRA be proactive and try and to prevent the people who should not get guns from having access to them.

Benz Fan · #**204** 12-25-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

That's odd...my son did it with my Mosin resting on a beanbag rest about a week ago. I guess this makes him extraordinary..

Sounds like it's time for his concealed-carry permit!

t walgamuth · #**205** 12-25-2012, 03:51 PM

Although I did not say so I was picturing firing offhand (standing with no support except ones own arms).

I could do it with a bean bag and a rifle. I'd give it a go offhand but would not expect great results.

jplinville · #**206** 12-25-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Although I did not say so I was picturing firing offhand (standing with no support except ones own arms).

I could do it with a bean bag and a rifle. I'd give it a go offhand but would not expect great results.

You have to be specific...even when talking about hand guns. Milspec and "normal" handguns, a 100 yard hit would be quite difficult, but not impossible. A high precision match pistol, with a little practice, and the odds are much more in your favor. That same handgun in the hands of an expert marksman...100 yard shots in a 2" group or less is possible all day, every day.

cmbdiesel · #**207** 12-25-2012, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

So out of a random selection of 1000 people, how many do you suppose could do it?

Actually it would not be that easy to do with an ordinary rifle with iron sights....for someone who has not practiced and had some training.

Tom, Tom, Tom.... it sounds to me like you've been allowing your commitment to the 2nd Amendment fall a little flat in regards to being 'Well regulated'.... What are you, some kind of communist??

jplinville · #**208** 12-25-2012, 08:51 PM

Look at what the press was so kind to do...they published names and addresses of permit holders in two counties of CT. All anyone has to do is wait for the occupants to leave, then break in and get a free gun. Stolen guns are widely used in the commission of crimes.

The interactive maps allow you to click on the dots, getting the address and name of the permit holder.

Is this the scarlet letter of 2013?? Great going, media...you've outed two counties worth of lawful gun permit holders...

http://www.lohud.com/interactive/article/20121223/NEWS01/121221011

Benz Dr. · #**209** 12-25-2012, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

The thought behind this is that if there had been no Gun available there would have been no Murder.
To believe this you would also have to believe that the Murderer would not have used another means to Murder.

There is plenty of Gun Laws but they are not being enforced effectively. Unfortunately it is partly an economic issue. Write a letter to the Bureau of Tobacco and Firearms and ask them if the feel they have enough Officers, equipment or funds to do their job effectively.

Do the same with your Police Department or your local Prosecutor.
The People in the NRA do want illegal gun uses heavily punished but they cannot motivate the Politicos to do that and are also too busy defending themselves from more un-enforceable Gun Laws.

Arn't you outraged that the Forces that are supposed to protect you and your Loved Ones are not funded well enouh?

Did the President of the US go on Air and talk about how his Party is going to increase Funds for Law Enforcement or Criminal Prosecution or did He did he speak of more Gun Control?
I mean Our Country spend Billions overseas but cannot properly fund Law Enforcment?
The answer is our Leaders do not really care. They would rather attack the soft target; the Law Abiding Gun owner, erode the US constitution and increase their power from the erosion.

Those who believe that this guy would have used something else to kill all of those kids seem to be missing the point, which is the ease in which he did it. Few things offer the distance, relative safety to the user, or the power that a gun filled with multiple rounds affords. If you intend to do maximum harm and after your first shot you're commited to the outcome, it's one of the better ways to do it.

It's your problem and your responsibility to find a solution. Somehow, I don't think the staus quo will hold up much longer unless gun deaths simply drop all on their own. It's like expecting people with cell phones to quit using them while driving - they won't. They could live without them and maybe save their own life as well as others. Until meaningfull laws come along to make them stop, it will keep happening.

Dubyagee · #**210** 12-25-2012, 09:27 PM

Then explain this

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

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