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  #46  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
What caliber is an ar 15? would it have had ordinary lead bullets and not full metal jackets?
I did not even realize they had Ar15s back then. But, if they did it would likely have had bullets with Full Metal Jackets on them because Military Weapons function more reliably with them
However, there is different Bullets for sporting purposes that are not fully Jacketed.

The velocity of the Bullet in an Ar15 precludes using an all lead Bullet if you want any sort of accuracy.

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  #47  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
On the show they stated that the ammo used was not listed in the tables provided for people who did ballistic analysis at that time. I inferred that it was not well known from that.

It appeared they used the same military spec bullet that Oswald used. (full metal jacket) Oswald used it no doubt because it was war surplus and inexpensive to buy (my guess).

I would conclude from the show that the load used with its full metal jacket was very accurate until it went through JFK's kneck. After that their tests suggested it would tumble ... the damage done to Connoley indicated that it hit his wrist sideways.

The suggestion that a SS man might have fired an inadvertant shot is an interesting thought but the acoustics suggested that the reports of all the bullets (IIRC) were similar. Also the following car was open. If a shot had come from a rifle in it surely someone would have witnessed it.

I am currently reading a book by Clint Hill, Jackie's SS man. He named the fellow who was responsible for the AR 15 rifle. I am in the middle of the funeral in the book now. I'll try to post the name of the fellow responsible for the ar 15 later.
Ask Your Dad if He would want to compete even shooting at a stationary target using Military Ammo with everyone else using commercial or hand loaded ammo.

Another issue is that when you test the timed fire you need to at least use the same Gun.
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  #48  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:35 PM
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I thought the full metal jacket was a requirement of the Geneva convention.....too.
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  #49  
Old 11-14-2013, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Ask Your Dad if He would want to compete even shooting at a stationary target using Military Ammo with everyone else using commercial or hand loaded ammo.

Another issue is that when you test the timed fire you need to at least use the same Gun.
Unfortunately he has been gone now 8 years. (Don't feel bad, no way for you to know). I would think testing the gun is pretty meaningless if its not in the same state of care as when used and the operator is as proficient reloading it under duress as the shooter.
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  #50  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
And, they managed to lose the Brain of the most important Murder in the US; could that have been an accident.

In the link I provided......the Secret Service took it.....last chain of custody..

Hell of a documentary.......I hope you guys can get access.
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  #51  
Old 11-15-2013, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I did not even realize they had Ar15s back then. But, if they did it would likely have had bullets with Full Metal Jackets on them because Military Weapons function more reliably with them
However, there is different Bullets for sporting purposes that are not fully Jacketed.

The velocity of the Bullet in an Ar15 precludes using an all lead Bullet if you want any sort of accuracy.
I just finished the Clint Hill book about his time guarding Jackie. I went back and reviewed what he said about the AR 15.

The car following at very close distance was called X100 IIRC. It was a long wheelbase 56 Caddy convertible with running boards and hand holds for the SS agents to hang on. Behind the front seat was a cabinet for additional armament. The AR 15 was in there. George Hinckley was the agent in charge of it.

For that gun to have shot the president he would have had to (if he did not already have it out) get it out of the cabinet, stand up and fire over the windshield of the Caddy to hit JFK. I don't see how that could be done with nobody noticing it nor in the time frame involved. It would also show in the Zapruder film I believe.

It is an interesting theory and would be more in line with the way the bullet fragmented that hit the president's head.

If he was shot by an AR 15 I don't believe it was the one held by the Secret Service.
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  #52  
Old 11-15-2013, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
What caliber is an ar 15? would it have had ordinary lead bullets and not full metal jackets?
5.56 mm full metal jacket standard military round
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  #53  
Old 11-15-2013, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
Clearly he wasn't a marine.
Marines have not had bolt action rifles as standard issue since the beginning of WWII.
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  #54  
Old 11-15-2013, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Was Oswald a good shooter? I dunno.
Oswald qualified Sharpshooter once while in the Corps. Later, his performance degraded and he qualified as marksman. The shooting rankings go from Marksman, to Sharpshooter to Expert. Oswald was on the bottom. And, when he qualified, he most likely qualified with either the M1 Garand or the M14, neither of which are bolt action.
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  #55  
Old 11-15-2013, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
In the Film you see Jackie Kennedy suddenly lurching over the Rear of the Car. They say She was trying to retrieve a piece of the Presidents Skull.
If that doesn't indicate a shot coming from the front entering JFKs throat area and then exiting out the back of his head shattering his skull in the process, I don't know what does.
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  #56  
Old 11-15-2013, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I just finished the Clint Hill book about his time guarding Jackie. I went back and reviewed what he said about the AR 15.

The car following at very close distance was called X100 IIRC. It was a long wheelbase 56 Caddy convertible with running boards and hand holds for the SS agents to hang on. Behind the front seat was a cabinet for additional armament. The AR 15 was in there. George Hinckley was the agent in charge of it.

For that gun to have shot the president he would have had to (if he did not already have it out) get it out of the cabinet, stand up and fire over the windshield of the Caddy to hit JFK. I don't see how that could be done with nobody noticing it nor in the time frame involved. It would also show in the Zapruder film I believe.

It is an interesting theory and would be more in line with the way the bullet fragmented that hit the president's head.

If he was shot by an AR 15 I don't believe it was the one held by the Secret Service.
According to the Reelz production, and Secret Service testimony, protocol with the Ar 15, it was kept on the floor of the vehicle locked and loaded. According to Hinkley, he picked the gun up and racked a round and set it to safe. The show also shows Hinkley reacting to a shot fron the rear with him looking up toward the school book depository and at the same time brandishing the AR 15.

There were several witnesses in the grass by the motorcade that claimed they could smell gunpowder and several saw an orange flame or flash.

They even provided bullet trajectory data that showed JFK's head and this 'third' shot did not line up with the school book building OR the grassy knoll. It lined up with the vehicle behind carrying the secret service.

They also showed that the secret service took over the entire investigation, illegally.

It was interesting at the least.
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  #57  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:26 AM
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Great! The shares of Reynolds Aluminum in my portfolio are safe.
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  #58  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
If that doesn't indicate a shot coming from the front entering JFKs throat area and then exiting out the back of his head shattering his skull in the process, I don't know what does.
Why did the bullet enter his front head exploding it and then exit out a tiny 6mm hole in the rear skull?

The PBS show addressed this pretty well.
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  #59  
Old 11-15-2013, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
Why did the bullet enter his front head exploding it and then exit out a tiny 6mm hole in the rear skull?

The PBS show addressed this pretty well.
quote from the link

"Dr. Charles Crenshaw, surgeon at Parkland Hospital: The headwound was difficult to see when he was laying on the back of his head. However, afterwards when they moved his face towards the left, one could see the large, right rear parietal, occipital, blasted out hole, the size of my fist, which is 2 and a half inches in diameter. The brain, cerebreal portion had been flurred out and also there was the cerebrellum hanging out from that wound. It was clearly an exit wound from the right rear, behind the ear. A right occipital area hole, the size of my fist."

Note: if you are disturbed by graphic autopsy photos, please do not view!

This. JFK MURDER SOLVED - Reward

This. The headwound according to witnesses

and very interestingly, this. JFKMURDER.COM - Missing and Faked Autopsy Photos.
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  #60  
Old 11-15-2013, 02:52 PM
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Takes me back to this Seinfeld - The Magic Loogie, Reconstruction - YouTube

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