Effects of decriminalizing drugs. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #1 12-21-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by link

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Larry agreed with one of my comments (above) that the effects of drug use may have negative influences on others. That may not suggest personal care but rather concern for the influence of one upon the other; so the evidence doesn't support your conclusion.

He has stated repeatedly that he likes to follow the (US) law, when the law agrees with his ideological views. iirc, he was in opposition to laws granting members of the lgbt community greater rights. I acknowledge your earlier point about so-called moral law (a slippery topic), and not necessarily US law, but the detail is, the views are not immutable, and that would suggest he doesn't agree with compulsory obedience in the literal sense. He may agree to degrees in the sense that serves his own values. If true, he would be like everyone else, right?

This is a kind of hair splitting. I could trace a line of logic that was first objectified by Schopenhauer, continued through Nietzsche, Freud, Adler and others, and most recently was expressed by Manslow in his (Manslow's) hierarchy of needs in the name of “Esteem.” This would agree in part, with a sense of allegiance to something greater (your patriarchal power), but more broadly the effect suggests only the desire to seek attention for self-serving goals.

Who knows, perhaps his dad believed in “correct” actions, whatever those were perceived to be, with punishment by way of a leather belt if one of his dad’s kids did live up to dad's perceptions. There are some who would act out all their life to avoid a sense of "the belt" after some experiences, i guess...

I dunno. You suggest he seeks power through attention seeking means, and i suggest he seeks attention for self-fulfillment. Anywho, without going into more boring detail, I guess you say potato….

BTW I do like the idea of the influence of perceived patriarchal power on one’s actions and goals, and acknowledge that does happen. Some never seek to draw their own conclusions but rather act out on handed down wisdom throughout life, but have not concluded that’s the case here. There is evidence to support that theory....

You could be right. It's an internet forum so the lack of face to face makes this kind of conjecture/speculation a lot more dicey. I don't think Larry is irrational. I think the world has changed in the last 30 years and patriarchal power is on the way out. Already gone in many quarters. These are very disturbing changes to lots of people. Lots of people express their dissatisfaction with those changes in 'moral' terms. I think Larry is one of them. Trying to engage in a rational discussion about those issues is pretty hard because most of the arguments which supported patriarchy don't have traction anymore. The only solution for those people dissatisfied with these changes is to be born again.

panZZer · #2 12-21-2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

You could be right. It's an internet forum so the lack of face to face makes this kind of conjecture/speculation a lot more dicey. I don't think Larry is irrational. I think the world has changed in the last 30 years and patriarchal power is on the way out. Already gone in many quarters. These are very disturbing changes to lots of people. Lots of people express their dissatisfaction with those changes in 'moral' terms. I think Larry is one of them. Trying to engage in a rational discussion about those issues is pretty hard because most of the arguments which supported patriarchy don't have traction anymore. The only solution for those people dissatisfied with these changes is to be born again.

lots of people are just waiting it out til they....... uh, never mind.

engatwork · #3 12-21-2013, 05:46 PM

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Would your feeling about that hold true if all of your children were girls?

Guess I should have clarified , At the time, if I were an American living over there yes but probably not anymore.

Diesel911 · #4 12-23-2013, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

lots of people are just waiting it out til they....... uh, never mind.

Yes, all us complaining old folks that liked the world of the Past when People where more Moral and People took responsibility for themselves and especially their sobriety; will pass on soon leaving the brave new world for you younger Folk.

Hatterasguy · #5 12-22-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

You could be right. It's an internet forum so the lack of face to face makes this kind of conjecture/speculation a lot more dicey. I don't think Larry is irrational. I think the world has changed in the last 30 years and patriarchal power is on the way out. Already gone in many quarters. These are very disturbing changes to lots of people. Lots of people express their dissatisfaction with those changes in 'moral' terms. I think Larry is one of them. Trying to engage in a rational discussion about those issues is pretty hard because most of the arguments which supported patriarchy don't have traction anymore. The only solution for those people dissatisfied with these changes is to be born again.

North Korea seems to be a great example of this.

link · #6 12-23-2013, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

You could be right. It's an internet forum so the lack of face to face makes this kind of conjecture/speculation a lot more dicey.

Agreed.

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I don't think Larry is irrational.

He’s, shall we say, not forthcoming on some subjects. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Quote:

I think the world has changed in the last 30 years and patriarchal power is on the way out. Already gone in many quarters. These are very disturbing changes to lots of people. Lots of people express their dissatisfaction with those changes in 'moral' terms. I think Larry is one of them.

I'm not sure i know what "patriarchal power" really means. I know you briefly described this previously.

Quote:

Trying to engage in a rational discussion about those issues is pretty hard because most of the arguments which supported patriarchy don't have traction anymore.

There are places where everyone is uncomfortable in discussion, especially on a public forum and I’m okay with that; but being willing to assert something while refusing to provide a rational explanation is another thing.

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The only solution for those people dissatisfied with these changes is to be born again.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

kerry · #7 12-23-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by link

I don't understand what you mean by that.

Literally. If Larry were born today he'd be much happier in this world since he'd grow up with gender equality and probably have a gay friend in high school. As it is he's going to live the rest of his life thinking that the US has gone to hell.

link · #8 12-23-2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Literally. If Larry were born today he'd be much happier in this world since he'd grow up with gender equality and probably have a gay friend in high school. As it is he's going to live the rest of his life thinking that the US has gone to hell.

Interesting. He probably did have gay friends in HS, if he was a typical kid of the era.

Not sure what your supposition may imply for people with this kind of uh, perception, as it's pretty normal to be unhappy and to blame the nature of people for that. Wasn't it Sartre that stated "Hell is other people."

I was talking with my sister the other day. Her oldest son's wife just had a child, which is his 2nd child, and 2nd wife for that matter. The new mom was not the mom of his first child. Sorry if that's redundant. Anywho, this was vastly different than when we were kids (my sister and me that is) and usually most families of the time were the product of a mom and dad pair. Now it is "normal" to have multiple "moms" and "dads" at family get togethers.

I rationalized that this ultimately translates to a greater acceptance of others than during the era of a traditional single parent set family, and personally consider that to be a very good thing.

Anywho, the idea of being born again is alien to me. I guess it is a way to act out on having the desire to be unchanging in one's views, which itself is pretty odd.

Diesel911 · #9 12-24-2013, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Literally. If Larry were born today he'd be much happier in this world since he'd grow up with gender equality and probably have a gay friend in high school. As it is he's going to live the rest of his life thinking that the US has gone to hell.

I wonder if what Larry believes is closer to reality then you suspect.

Diesel911 · #10 12-23-2013, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

You could be right. It's an internet forum so the lack of face to face makes this kind of conjecture/speculation a lot more dicey. I don't think Larry is irrational. I think the world has changed in the last 30 years and patriarchal power is on the way out. Already gone in many quarters. These are very disturbing changes to lots of people. Lots of people express their dissatisfaction with those changes in 'moral' terms. I think Larry is one of them. Trying to engage in a rational discussion about those issues is pretty hard because most of the arguments which supported patriarchy don't have traction anymore. The only solution for those people dissatisfied with these changes is to be born again.

Apparently morality is not rational even though it has a good track record of keeping People out of trouble?

Well what do you think; have things gotten better in the last 30 years or not?
Are People especially Children safer?
Are People happier?
More to the Point of this thread is Drug abuse increasing or decreasing.