Another Ruby Ridge/Waco event brewing - Page 36 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Diesel911 · #1 05-03-2014, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Balance is always the key....
To my Conservative friends, don't allow your fear of the government to overlook Bundy's failures to follow the law. we claim we are a nation of laws, and he failed to abide by them. There are ways to change bad laws, and they take time, but as long as there is a law that requires payment of a fee, he needed to obey that law. At the very least , he could have paid the disputed fees into an escrow account, and avoided looking like a cheap-skate.

To my Liberal/Progressive friends, don't allow your distaste for Bundy and his gun-totting friends to cause you to overlook the real evil of a government that attacks its citizens with overt military force. What is most suspicious to many is the same government refuses to use the same force against other law-breakers---notably those who, against the laws of this country, enter illegally, or to use that military force to save the lives of US citizens and the Ambassador at the Benghazi attack. Combine that use or misuse use of force with the known ability of the government to lie, and you have a government that makes its citizens fear. That is tyranny.

In more peaceful situations a goodly number of the Liberal/Progressives are worried about the Common Man owning a Gun and have claimed that the Common Man owning a Gun endangers themselves and People living in the same Household with the Gun.
But, now it is OK for those same irresponsible Common Men to pull the Guns on Law Enforcement?
Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone.

aklim · #2 05-03-2014, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

In more peaceful situations a goodly number of the Liberal/Progressives are worried about the Common Man owning a Gun and have claimed that the Common Man owning a Gun endangers themselves and People living in the same Household with the Gun.
But, now it is OK for those same irresponsible Common Men to pull the Guns on Law Enforcement?
Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone.

I'm OK with guys pulling guns on LEO. AS LONG AS they understand that their lives can be forfeit. If you pulled a deadly weapon on me, just expect that I will not aim to wound.

MS Fowler · #3 05-04-2014, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

In more peaceful situations a goodly number of the Liberal/Progressives are worried about the Common Man owning a Gun and have claimed that the Common Man owning a Gun endangers themselves and People living in the same Household with the Gun.
But, now it is OK for those same irresponsible Common Men to pull the Guns on Law Enforcement?
Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone.

"Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone" except GOVERNMENT.

aklim · #4 05-04-2014, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

"Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone" except GOVERNMENT.

I think both sides trust or distrust government depending on which way the judgment goes.

Idle · #5 05-04-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I think both sides trust or distrust government depending on which way the judgment goes.

Nope.

One side distrusts the government depending on the situation and the subject. They consider the facts available and make up their mind one way or the other.

The other side listens to Fox News and does what they are told.

Idle · #6 05-04-2014, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

"Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone" except GOVERNMENT.

Nope.

That is your opinion. It is nowhere near to a fact.

MS Fowler · #7 05-04-2014, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idle

Nope.

That is your opinion. It is nowhere near to a fact.

It would be reassuring to see some evidence to that.

elchivito · #8 05-04-2014, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

"Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone" except GOVERNMENT.

Conservative mythology. I know very few "progressives" or liberals who inherently trust government.

aklim · #9 05-04-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Conservative mythology. I know very few "progressives" or liberals who inherently trust government.

OTOH, I do. As long as it is their favorite guy in charge. Are conservatives any different? I don't see it unless it is the liberal that is stating it. I can honestly say that from conversation with liberals and conservatives, their support of government depends on whether it is them and their favorite guy at the trough or not. If so, life is good. If not, govt sucks.

MS Fowler · #10 05-04-2014, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Conservative mythology. I know very few "progressives" or liberals who inherently trust government.

About half the time---when a repub ( liberal or conservative) is in the White House, Progressives have no trust in government. When a democrat inhabits the WH, there seems to be nothing but trust in the government.

The cynicism exhibited by liberal toward government disappears when a democrat is the President.

cmac2012 · #11 05-04-2014, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Conservative mythology. I know very few "progressives" or liberals who inherently trust government.

x2

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

"Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone" except GOVERNMENT.

Jorn · #12 05-04-2014, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

"Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone" except GOVERNMENT.

If that's the case, why did you ever call me a liberal or progressive?

Idle · #13 05-04-2014, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Balance is always the key....
To my Conservative friends, don't allow your fear of the government to overlook Bundy's failures to follow the law. we claim we are a nation of laws, and he failed to abide by them. There are ways to change bad laws, and they take time, but as long as there is a law that requires payment of a fee, he needed to obey that law. At the very least , he could have paid the disputed fees into an escrow account, and avoided looking like a cheap-skate.

To my Liberal/Progressive friends, don't allow your distaste for Bundy and his gun-totting friends to cause you to overlook the real evil of a government that attacks its citizens with overt military force. What is most suspicious to many is the same government refuses to use the same force against other law-breakers---notably those who, against the laws of this country, enter illegally, or to use that military force to save the lives of US citizens and the Ambassador at the Benghazi attack. Combine that use or misuse use of force with the known ability of the government to lie, and you have a government that makes its citizens fear. That is tyranny.

I remember pointing out to some Conservatives during the Bush years that G. W. Bush was using fear to intimidate the Episcopal Church via the IRS. The overwhelming response was "Who cares if they love me as long as they fear me" and that we, as citizens, should fear our government when we oppose it because Republicans can do no wrong. I was told the source of this bit of wisdom was Rush Limbaugh but who really knows? One thing was for sure: They thought it was the gospel truth and that if I was afraid of the government then I must have a good reason to be afraid and it was my own fault and maybe I should take a little better care of myself and blah, blah, blah......

But now when the government causes citizens to fear it that is tyranny? When did this take place? Are Conservatives aware of this change in their position?

aklim · #14 05-04-2014, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idle

I remember pointing out to some Conservatives during the Bush years that G. W. Bush was using fear to intimidate the Episcopal Church via the IRS. The overwhelming response was "Who cares if they love me as long as they fear me" and that we, as citizens, should fear our government when we oppose it because Republicans can do no wrong. I was told the source of this bit of wisdom was Rush Limbaugh but who really knows? One thing was for sure: They thought it was the gospel truth and that if I was afraid of the government then I must have a good reason to be afraid and it was my own fault and maybe I should take a little better care of myself and blah, blah, blah......

But now when the government causes citizens to fear it that is tyranny? When did this take place? Are Conservatives aware of this change in their position?

What has being a conservative or liberal or racist or anti-racist or history buff got to do with anything. Sounds like he is little more than a deadbeat tenant who is trying to wrap up his actions in the "flag and apple pie" routine to make himself sound heroic. People with an ax to grind will pick a side to justify their position.

He is just a unwilling to pay tenant who is being asked to leave. What has any philosophy got to do with the case at hand? The law is pretty clear. If you disagree we have a court system. If you cannot and/or will not abide by it, find yourself another country that is more in agreement with you. Is it simpler than that?

Idle · #15 05-04-2014, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

What has being a conservative or liberal or racist or anti-racist or history buff got to do with anything. Sounds like he is little more than a deadbeat tenant who is trying to wrap up his actions in the "flag and apple pie" routine to make himself sound heroic. People with an ax to grind will pick a side to justify their position.

He is just a unwilling to pay tenant who is being asked to leave. What has any philosophy got to do with the case at hand? The law is pretty clear. If you disagree we have a court system. If you cannot and/or will not abide by it, find yourself another country that is more in agreement with you. Is it simpler than that?

Please note that the point I was trying to make had to do with "If the people fear the government it is a terrible thing" vs. the Bush ear Conservative doctrine of "Who cares if they love me as long as they fear me".

Today Conservatives say that people fear the government because there is a terrible person in the White House. Eight years ago the only reason, at least according to Conservatives, for anyone to fear the government was because they were in the wrong and not the government.

When you truly think you can do no wrong you have lost all sense of reason and any action against anyone is just fine and dandy. After all, as Cheney said, the Constitution is just a piece of paper. Given that mindset why follow the rule of law?

It is refreshing to hear Conservatives admit that the government can make mistakes. There was an eight year period (which lined up with the eight years that Bush was in power) where questioning the actions of the government made you something besides a true American and the normal response of Conservatives was "If you don't like here then why don't you leave?"

It is weird for folks that don't believe in evolution to have evolved, but I am glad to see it taking place.