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  #76  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI View Post
I'm at PHX two to three times a month, US Air, Hawaiian, United/Continental, so that's 4,3 and 2. Never really noticed a difference in TSA demeanor, however I know the drill so to speak; never wear a belt, all loose change, phone and keys in my briefcase, slip on shoes, magnetometer neutral, ID out of wallet . . .
I'm still amazed at the number of people who show up in line with bottles of water, 20 oz. bottle of shampoo or skin cream, or none of their toiletries in a quart-size bag, packed away in their carry-on who are then amazed that they can't carry them on and will bicker for 5 minutes while holding up everyone behind them. Perhaps they get their kicks by being the center of attention?

I only fly 4-6 times a year but I think it took me one half of one trip to figure out the system as you stated it. And it's only been that way for 10+ year now.

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  #77  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
That sound a LOT like the "Good Germans" talking about Hitler's SD and SS "employees", at least to me it does...

'



You missed the point.

Which is about blind obedience to ANY rules or dicta, so as to NOT make waves or question authority.

I didn't.

There is nothing wrong with questioning rules and authority. Personally, I think that most of what the TSA does is a farce. It does make for good show, however, and most of the public believes it.

However, questioning the individual TSA members and rebelling against their authority in their arena is just plain stupid. They do not care and are more than willing to detain you, indefinitely, if you make a sufficient ass out of yourself. What, exactly, is the goal? Do you really believe that the TSA agent will go home and rethink his occupation or his rules?

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 12-02-2011 at 08:07 AM.
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  #78  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
By checking every single receipt, they absolutely assume dishonesty until proven otherwise. Giving them the benefit of the doubt and allowing them off the hook is your prerogative.



After some thought, you're right about that. They make the assumption that I'm dishonest and have a checkbook that is not my own. Therefore, I will never use a check again in such an establishment...
I hear you on all of that. I just don't think either practice, checking receipts or asking for ID, assumes anything about me. If they knew me and still did that, then I would take offense.
Quote:
...Is the employee embarrassed because he is deemed insignificant?
Yes, insignificant, ineffective, and not worthy of respect.
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  #79  
Old 12-02-2011, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
I hear you on all of that. I just don't think either practice, checking receipts or asking for ID, assumes anything about me. If they knew me and still did that, then I would take offense.
You're making it personal. It isn't. The policy, standing alone, where every receipt is checked, makes the assumption of universal guilt.

Of course, you can take the position of the store, whereby the argument is "no, we don't assume your stealing, but we just want to verify it".

It comes down to the BS expression, "Trust, but verify". If you had trust, you don't verify.


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Originally Posted by Honus View Post

Yes, insignificant, ineffective, and not worthy of respect.
Point.

I'll reconsider it.
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  #80  
Old 12-02-2011, 08:03 AM
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Aldi has better prices than Costco on a lot of staples and you don't have to buy a huge amount.

Costco's meat department OTOH is about the best in my neighborhood if you buy whole primals. Their butchers suck.
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  #81  
Old 12-02-2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
...It comes down to the BS expression, "Trust, but verify". If you had trust, you don't verify...
No doubt. That is a BS expression.
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  #82  
Old 12-02-2011, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
No doubt. That is a BS expression.
How about this other one: Trust is EARNED and NOT given.
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  #83  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
I didn't.

There is nothing wrong with questioning rules and authority. Personally, I think that most of what the TSA does is a farce. It does make for good show, however, and most of the public believes it.

However, questioning the individual TSA members and rebelling against their authority in their arena is just plain stupid. They do not care and are more than willing to detain you, indefinitely, if you make a sufficient ass out of yourself. What, exactly, is the goal? Do you really believe that the TSA agent will go home and rethink his occupation or his rules?
No, but if enough people treat them like utter dirt outside of working hours (when they can't do anything to you) while telling them WHY they're being treated like scum, maybe they'll go home and look for a real job, rather than a job as a government parasite!

Yes, I consider the willing servants of the war machine as bad as the war machine itself. Why war machine? Because if we hadn't butted our noses into the f***ing Middle East where they don't belong, 9/11 would likely have not happened.
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  #84  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
No, but if enough people treat them like utter dirt outside of working hours (when they can't do anything to you) while telling them WHY they're being treated like scum, maybe they'll go home and look for a real job, rather than a job as a government parasite!

Yes, I consider the willing servants of the war machine as bad as the war machine itself. Why war machine? Because if we hadn't butted our noses into the f***ing Middle East where they don't belong, 9/11 would likely have not happened.
Well, we have a lot of people on welfare and they haven't offed themselves yet so why hold out any hope?

Another good point. However, like say a wool sweater, if you unravel one part, you might end up unraveling the whole sweater. Point is, all you have is that if we didn't intervene in the ME, this might not have happened. However, nobody can say what would have happened had we not. You seem to think there is a "free lunch". IOW, you think that if you don't do this, that will not happen. Assuming it is true for a minute, do you know what the consequences of not intervening will be? And how can we be certain of this? Maybe, just maybe, by not intervening we are getting the lessor of two evils. OTOH, we might be getting the greater of two evils. It is NOT that simple
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  #85  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Yes, I consider the willing servants of the war machine as bad as the war machine itself.
That's fundamentally wrong, and you know it.

As mentioned previously, you're being juvenile. I had a sense you were in your '30s, but now I'm not so sure...............
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  #86  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jplinville View Post

Costco wants to keep their prices low, and members pay for the discounts by a little bit of a wait.
Lemming rationality to obscure the fact that the retailer fails to provide the necessary staff at the expense of their customers and the customer places no value on their own time.

It's a win---win for you!!
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  #87  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
That's fundamentally wrong, and you know it.

As mentioned previously, you're being juvenile. I had a sense you were in your '30s, but now I'm not so sure...............
I'm in my 30s, and I really don't give a crap if you think my opinions or notions are "wrong."
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  #88  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Lemming rationality to obscure the fact that the retailer fails to provide the necessary staff at the expense of their customers and the customer places no value on their own time.

It's a win---win for you!!
Don't like it, don't shop there...an even stronger win! You'll spend more elsewhere for cheaper made garbage, and I'll buy the quality items with a few minutes longer of a wait.

Your choice..
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  #89  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
I'm in my 30s, and I really don't give a crap if you think my opinions or notions are "wrong." If you work in a "business" that I don't like, I'm not going to go out of my way to show even a slight modicum of politeness to you. Don't like it? Get a different job or don't ask me for anything, because the response won't be pretty.
Again, you connect the business to the employee who happens to earn a living at that business. You insult the employee of the business when the management of the business is the problem for you.

Juvenile.

Oh, and BTW, it's a general assumption that nobody gives a crap about what anybody else posts on here..........therefore, mentioning it just makes you appear...........well, juvenile.

FWIW (nothing I am sure), my discussion with Honus caused me to reconsider my own position of failing to show a receipt when requested at Wal-Mart or other box stores. I do not agree with the policy in any way, but blowing off the employee causes him to feel insignificant and embarrassed. Therefore, I will change my behavior if time is not an issue because we all need to behave in a more civilized fashion. The DB factor has become onerous in this society and I don't want to additionally fuel it.
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  #90  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Again, you connect the business to the employee who happens to earn a living at that business. You insult the employee of the business when the management of the business is the problem for you.
If the management found it harder and harder to find employees, then the business would cease to function.

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