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  #1  
Old 01-05-2001, 03:54 PM
arochard
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Just wondering if anyone knows, if I can replace my Stromberg 175 CD carb on my '76 230 with a Stromberg 175 CD2 from an old Jaguar ?

AARON ROCHARD
1976 230.4 W115
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2001, 11:25 PM
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Aaron, (good name, BTW)

I don't see why not, I believe the CD2 was used on the 3.8, 4.2 and 5.3 V-12 E-Types and should be ok to swap. But if I were you, I'd send your 175 CD to a rebuild specialist and have them throroughly go through it. Funny thing how there's an internal diaphragm inside that carb that gets eaten away by what else? Gasoline!

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Aaron
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2001, 12:07 AM
dlswnfrd
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Why not do your own rebuilding?

For more years than I would like to remember, I retired from G.M. cadillac Motor car Division. I was an Automotive Engineer, I don't know what I are now. I instructed in the G.M. Training Centers. One of the instruction periods was the theory and rebuilding of Rochestor and Carter Carburetors. I am always amazed in the attitude taken toward the European Carbs. Why can't an advanced D.I.Y mechanic rebuild one of these, his own carb? After the pro rebuild and the carb flow tested, is it any diferent than one Joe Schmo rebuilt? Don't the rebuild kits come with spec sheets and referenced gauges? I would really like to know why he can't. Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston.

Donald
Confused about the
Wiffle Dust
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  #4  
Old 01-06-2001, 01:22 PM
arochard
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Actually, the 175 CD on my car already has been rebuilt. The mechanic that I had look at it and try to fix my idle problems, told me that the actual metal insides are worn, making it next to impossible to fix. It's not like I can just replace the needle or something. It's affecting the vacuum retard.

AARON

1976 230.4 W115
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  #5  
Old 01-06-2001, 01:52 PM
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One reason those carbs are so hard to deal with is that they didn't work well new. During those years every car maker was having problems keeping emissions down with the crude carburators of the day. If you want to see the logical fix or extension of carbs into this era one only needs look at a late eighties Honda carb, systems on top of systems, the original rube goldberg process.

In the carb in question I surely wouldn't recommend the Jag carb. I'm sure more of us old guy's lost more hair to that one than the MB carb. The thermal compensator was something I never quite got.

I have made the MB carb work though and it has one tremendous benefit to the Jag carb. It has a basic mixture adjustment (the main jet is adjustable). In the MB carbs case its demise is the activity of its choke mechanism.

The choke is not like a choke (it chokes nothing). It is a piston that moves under bimetallic pressure to expose two or three increasingly large fuel jets to the main mixture jet increasing mixture while a fast idle cam holds the throttle. This piston seizes in the potmetal bore and can be cleaned up continuously untill there is no point. The housing is still available and usually fixes the carb but it probably cost near $500 now.
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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2001, 07:30 PM
dlswnfrd
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A Market Out There?

Steve I know how bad the limie Carbs are on both the MG and the Jag. I'm speaking in the mid 50s; the SUs. With the re-building now being next to impossible; how about a thorought overhaul? Is there a market or is there already a service. Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston.

Donald.
too old too quick
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  #7  
Old 01-07-2001, 08:22 PM
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SUs are a different thing. They were simple and had easy adjustments. By the time Jag used the Strombergs they had to deal with emissions issues.

The problem with rebuilds in a box is that most of the job in a proper carb overhaul is the final on car adjustments.
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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
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Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2001, 02:30 AM
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Rochester 175CD....

Hi there,

I just happen to have a 1977 Jag XJ6 that has two Rochester 175CDs on it, which I have rebuilt several times now, and I would suggest that you consider accumulating several 175 carbs to use for PARTS, and keep your original carb bodies as long as possible. The Main Jet is what usually wears out, and it can be pressed out and a new one installed quite easily. The only real difficulty with these units is that they tend to accumulate gum and rust particles in the float chambers and also in the inlet filters. When I first checked my carburetors, both inlet filters were almost plugged solid with rust. Also, both main jet bores were egg-shaped from the wear that the sliding needle produced. The pistons don't wear out on these carbs, they are centered by a chrome-plated shaft that I've never seen wear. The diaghram stiffens and gets holes in it, and should be replaced at least once a year - it's only a $5 part. Just make sure the passages are clear, and that everything is in good shape with a minimum of wear. The carbs were used on a number of vehicles, so finding them isn't usually a problem.
I haven't had any problems adjusting the carbs as long as they are in GOOD mechanical condition!

Best of luck,
Richard Wooldridge
'82 300td/4.3LV6
'77 Jag XJ6L
'77 280Z
'74 280C
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2001, 09:26 AM
dlswnfrd
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Too Soon Too Late

Steve and Richard, both side of the coin.I see where Steve comes from and I know where Richard is. The D.I.Y. and the professonal. I must remove my comments from this forum, I'm getting in a position that can become very uncomfortable. Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston.

Donald
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  #10  
Old 01-09-2001, 01:16 AM
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Another wild idea!

Hi again,

Here's another idea for you to mull over - As Mr. Swinford probably can tell you, GM Throttle body injection is very easy to understand and has a minimum of components, and does a much better job of providing fuel than any carburetor ever could! There are several sites on the net that are in business just to provide kits to install TBI on any engine. However, you could probably just "lift" the TBI from a GM vehicle of around the same displacement and install it, and it would most certainly work great on your car. The ECMs on these units will adjust themselves both to the vehicle requirements and the driver's driving style, so even if there is a mismatch at first, it will correct itself over time to match the requirements of the engine. TBI has: 1. a throttle body unit that contains the throttle butterfly, the injector(s), the pressure regulator, and the throttle position sensor. 2. a map sensor, which senses the manifold absolute pressure, and provides the ECM with feedback of the engine's load and the altitude information. 3. a Coolant Temperature sensor - the ECM uses the engine temperature information to enrich the mixture when starting cold, and leans out the mix when the engine is at operating temperature. It also provides other information, like not allowing the torque converter clutch to lock up when the engine is cold, but you wouldn't need to use that on your application. 4. a knock sensor - the ECM and associated circuits adjust the engine timing so it's always at the point of most efficient engine operation for load and gasoline octane level. 5. timing info from the distributor 6. an O2 sensor, which provides feedback to the ECM so it can always maintain a 14.7 - 1 air/fuel mix. There are other inputs, but that's all that's absolutely neccesary to make it all work properly. Hmmm, I think I will install it on my Jag!

Richard Wooldridge
1982 300TD/4.3LV6
1977 Jag XJ6L
1977 280Z
1974 280C
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  #11  
Old 01-15-2001, 10:12 PM
dlswnfrd
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Richardwoolridge, mitten der bells

Sorry so late replying in wonderment. It sounds too simple. Do it and apply for da dam patent. Happy Trails Beep Beep frem en zee Houston.

Donald
Skippadeedooda.
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  #12  
Old 01-15-2001, 10:41 PM
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Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Throttle Body Injection...

Hi Donald,
It sounds easy because it really IS easy! One of the outfits that already does this type of thing is Howell EFI, they sell Throttle Body injection and Port injection setups to fit most anything. They all use a GM Electronic Control module with the chip programmed for the basic cubic inch displacement of the engine it's being used on. As I said in the previous post, the ECM is capable of fine tuning itself to match the requirements of the engine, so if things aren't perfect at first, they will be after a week or so of driving. One item I forgot to mention on the throttle body itself is the idle control. The butterflys close completely on TBI, and there is an air bypass that is controlled by a stepper motor. The stepper motor is adjusted by the ECM to make the engine idle at around 1000 rpm when cold, tapering down to around 650 when warm. The ECM has an input for the A/C compressor, and when the A/C compressor is switched on, the ECM immediately opens the stepper motor a bit so the idle speed is maintained. TBI takes all the difficulty out of making an engine run properly, hot or cold. It provides immediate starts at all temperatures, and the fuel pressure, while not too high at 13 psi, is still high enough so there are no vapor lock worries. I think I really will put it on my Jag, as it would eliminate the twice yearly problem of making the very difficult chokes work properly on MY 175's.
Regards, Richard Wooldridge
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