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  #1  
Old 02-22-2001, 01:40 AM
David C Klasse's Avatar
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MOS2 ANTI-FRICTION MOTOR TREATMENT

Is sold in PartsShop. I heard that MB recommends NO additives? Though I heard that MOS2 is good for engines (according to DRIVE IT FOREVER), but MB doesn't recommend anything? So is this recommended for MB engines, despite the MB warnings??
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2001, 01:55 AM
s60
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Is that the Moly stuff? I only tried their fuel additive. Everyone says that Moly stuff works but, it made my Fuel Reserve sensor come on at a quarter of a tank. Don't know if it is worth putting it in for every 30,000 miles. Most additives are not recommended for the MBs, especially the oil additives. There should be no need.
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2001, 07:35 AM
Dr Parts
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MOS2 Anti-friction engine treatment,
Properties. Forms a friction and wear reducing "moly" film on all sliding surfaces of the engine. The engine runs smoother,quieter,cooler, more reliably. Provides an extra measure of protection under extreme operating conditions, e.g. extreme temperatures,engine overheating under high loads,loss of oil, etc. Miscible with all motor oils.

Benefits. Up to 50% less engine wear. Reduces oil and fuel consumption. Longer engine life. Safeguards against breakdowns and repairs. Smother, more pleasent engine operation.

I took this right out of the book. I have been to manny lubro molly seminars with Gary Boyd(1 800 223 1634) the rep of it here in the US. This guy swears by all of its products. The one thing that I like about the product is that it is all made in Germany.
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2001, 11:31 AM
Ali Al-Chalabi's Avatar
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I would never use it. A quality, clean engine oil is all that you need. Use Mobil 1, what better protection could you get for your car? Mercedes even voids warranties if they find any additives were added to the oil. Your is probably not under warranty, but goes to show a point about how strongly MB feels about this.

Mobil 1, Amsoil (at $8 a quart!) and other quality oils are formulated with all the additives and lubrication properties that are needed. Engineers spent a good deal of time formulating oil. Do you think they would have overlooked anything that would not make their oil a superior product. Don't mess with a good thing.
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2001, 12:53 PM
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Time For Der Linqz...

Never say never. I "never" heard of this line of products before, but I found this website because my independent Mercedes shop told me that they used Lubro-Moly as an additive during the oil change included in an "E" service. Well, I had to know what the stuff was, and that search for information on the products led me here.

True, Mercedes does not officilly endorse or recommend the use of any additives, fuel or engine. But Mercedes dealers sell Redline products in their parts departments. So why don't they sell Lubro-Moly? Well, according to Jerry Boyd, the company's marketing strategy is focused on making their products available only through independent garages and the internet. They have no interest in selling it through auto parts stores, or Mercedes dealers. If they did sell to Mercedes, I think that the additive policy would change, but what we're dealing with is politics, not just engineering.

When your Mercedes warranty is no longer an issue, there is no reason not to try this excellent line of quality German products. For a more complete picture of the company and it's products, go to: http://www.liqui-moly.de. The parent compant in Germany is known as Liqui-Moly in Europe, and Lubro-Moly here in the U.S..
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2001, 06:28 PM
David C Klasse's Avatar
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In that case, I'll steer clear! But why does MercedesShop advertise this?
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2001, 08:38 PM
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Sorry, John...

None of the products produced by Redline or by Lubro-Moly contain PTFE's. I agree with you on the subject of snake oil additives you see on TV. Slick 50, Motor-Up, and all of those others are crap.

The link you supply from GS Resources (a Suzuki motorcycle site), provides a reprint of an article from the August 1992 edition of Road Rider magazine that seems to be accurate, unbiased, and is also endorsed by me for informational purposes as well. But they don't mention Redline or Lubro-Moly, and they also don't seem to like synthetic oil but they never mention Mobil 1, or Redline by name.

Why not check out Liqui-Moly's and Redline's websites and see what you're knocking here. I know you're a rational guy who takes his car care seriously, but these products don't deserve to be compared to STP, Wynn's, Rislone, Slick 50, Motor Up, or any of the other doggy doo that you can buy at K-Mart, WalMart, or the corner auto parts store. Although you can get some Redline products at PepBoys.

And, David, I can't speak for MercedesShop. Perhaps Sir Bill, Ye Olde Webmaster, will grace us with his comments?
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2001, 10:58 PM
Dr Parts
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I sell pallets of lubro molly additives to Mercedes Dealers all over the world. Go figure!!!
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2001, 11:16 PM
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I used "Motor Up" a few months ago and about 2 oil changes ago - can't say I noticed much perhaps it was pyschological that I thought the engine was smoother?

I then switched to Mobil 1 from BP3000 Semi-Synt, but my friendly Mech recommended that I stay with Semi-Synt. for he fears that Mobil 1 may be too "diluted" for my beautiful 10 year old baby.
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2001, 02:00 AM
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Molybdenum Disulfide

Moly Disulfide (MoS2) is a naturally occurring mineral (molybdenite) that is extremely soft...can be as soft as talc. High performance engine builders have used lubricants made from MoS2 for years, because it can be a very high pressure lubricant. But it normally is a very specialized use...it is spread liberally on the cam shaft lobes during final assembly. The cam lobes can easily be damaged in the first few SECONDS of running if not properly lubed. We always used MoS2 on the high performance engines we put together, BUT after running for about twenty minutes, we would shut it down, drain the crank case, add fresh oil (without MoS2) and a new filter. then run another couple hundred miles and change the oil again (Mobil 1 of course). The type of MoS2 we used was very thick and it was removed after the short initial run in because it was thought to eventually plug the filter. Whether this poses a risk in the current formulations (Luby-Moly, et al), I do not know. Personally, I wouldn't use it or other oil additives in a production engine, but would rely on the superior qualities of a fully synthetic oil like Mobil 1.
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2001, 02:00 AM
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The products we sell are NOT Slick 50 "miracle" products. As stated above, Slick 50 and other PTFE products are SNAKE OIL! Redline and Lubro Moly do not market that type of product at all.

Water Wetter, Ventil Sauber, Diesel Purge, etc are really professional products. They do work and many shops use these products or something similar by BG Products. Most shops use some kind of chemical additive to clean injectors, valves, etc. Lots of people use Water Wetter and it does work well.

BUT, for me personally...and I am NOT a mechanic (my background is electrical engineering so what do I know about materials!) I do NOT believe in ever adding ANYTHING to motor oil. I don't care what it is or who made it. I am always concerned about upsetting the carefully designed balance of lubrication and cleaning that is designed into motor oil. My feeling is that additives added to the fuel for cleaning purposes simply do their job and pass through. Anything added to the oil is going to be in there for several thousand miles.
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2001, 10:05 AM
dlswnfrd
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MOS2

After reading all of the negative remarks based upon "I Believe, I think or I heard it in Number 3 stall; I would like to give my opinion(another I know).
I have a 1987 300E spark ignition W124030.
It has 171,300 miles and has never had the cam cover off.
It still runs smooth and strong.
For calender year 2000, it averaged 19.4 mpg.
His oil consumption is 1 qt per 1100- 1200 miles.
He has had "Liqui-moly" added every 20,000 miles after the initial break-in period.
MOS2 burnishes the moving parts surfaces and is soluable with the motor oil, not like some other teflon additives that settle out in the crankcase.
The cost of the additive is zelch compared to the protection it offers.
So go ahead and make your personnal comments, I'll continue using this "snake oil" additive and look forward to 200,000 miles without even valve stem seals.
If some M/B dealers use MOS2, it can't be all that bad, or are they just spinning thier wheels and ripping off thier customers?
Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston!!!
Donald, El Cheapo
Edit:
P.S. I failed to mention I add it to the differential lube as well. I change the lube every year(12mon).
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2001, 03:32 PM
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BUT, WHAT DO THE EXPERTS SAY?

Whether I think that something sucks or is great, if the research I do either supports or disproves my initial impression of any product, I'm going to give you the straight scoop on what I found out. This is what I found out so far.

First, the Moly that Steve (dakota) makes reference to not made from Moly, but is Moly in a suspension of a lithium base, and is commonly referred to as "assembly lube". I have a tube of Sta-Lube® Moly-Graph Assembly Lube that, as the name implies, also contains graphite. The product packaging says that it, "Prevents contact friction, galling, & wear during engine assembly, initial start-up, & break-in. USE ON: Crankshafts, camshafts, gears, bearings, valve stems, lifters, push rods, & all areas of rotational or sliding contact". The manufacturer states that there is no reason to change your oil after a short period to avoid clogging anything (including the filter), as the lithium base and added Moly are both fully solvent within the crankcase oil. If anything, it should be left in the engine to allow the benefits derived from the initial application to continue. Their advice is to just change the oil at the recommended interval for the specific engine.

Now, just what do the experts say about MOS2? Here's some quotes from http://www.netside.com/~parsec/experts.htm

Commercial Carrier Journal Article - “What sort of benefits will moly give in engines? Basically the same as it does in other types of equipment, i.e. reduced friction and wear of moving parts along with added anti-rust and anti-oxidant protection. The results are lengthened engine life and oil life, small but significant increases in power and fuel economy and easier cold cranking.” “...the addition of 1% moly reduced valve train wear some 85% to 99% over the performance of the base oil to which it was added. ...moly improved an oil’s scuffing protection by 4% to 34% depending on the engine parts evaluated ...moly inhibits oil oxidation and sludge and varnish build-up and improves an engine’s cold cranking speed some 12%.”

University of Michigan, Dept. of Mechanical Engineering, Ann Arbor, Mich. - Research Report - “...found that the coefficient of friction on MOS2 decreased with increased load up to a pressure of 600,000 PSI at which pressure it was 0.032 and had the lowest coefficient of friction of any material ever tested.”

International Industrial Lubrication Exhibition, Royal Horticultural Society, Westminster, London, UK - Technical Presentation - “Moreover, MOS2, useful by itself, also functions as an additive. It brings its own abilities to the lubricant system with which it is joined. Thus, MOS2 is a material that can be used to improve conventional lubricants, and as a lubricant itself.”

Society of Automotive Engineers Tech. Bulletin # 750674 - This data shows that 1% MOS2 engine treatment contributed to a reduction in sludge, varnish and wear, as well as reduced oil viscosity due to oxidation and an improvment in cranking speed at -20° F. In addition, neither new nor artifically plugged filters removed measurable amounts of MOS2 from the oil. The presence of MOS2 in the engine oil did not appear to adversely affect the emission levels of hydrocarbons, CO, or NOx.”

Clemson University, Dept. of Mechanical Engineering, Clemson, SC in a review of existing technical and test data - “Moly has been well proven to be
a viable and effective additive to any lubricant in numerous applications and types of equipment. The addition of moly has been shown to improve fuel economy and more importantly, to increase the useful life of a mechanical device through the reduction of wear.”

Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dept. of Mechanical Engineering, Cambridge, Mass - Statement based upon Existing Technical/Testing Data - “...the antiwear properties of the material (MOS2) are well known in the technical community...”

And for our members who are chemists, here's a website that outlines some of the major differences between "...long chain molecules such as PTFE, FEP, PFA, ETFE, etc. (and) Lamella structure materials such as molybdenum disulfide, tungsten disulfide and electric furnace graphite...".

I don't sell this stuff, and I haven't even tried it yet, but I want to know as much about it as I possibly can before I do use it. That's what we're all here for, to share information.

[Edited by longston on 02-23-2001 at 02:39 PM]
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2001, 03:44 PM
dlswnfrd
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WOW Scott

Scott all I said is I use this slippery black stuff in my engine and it appears to be of some benefit considerring the miles and age of my engine.
I'm glad you got your soap box out for you sure have a positive message for this goobly goop.
Happy Trails beep beep from Houston!!
Donald, El Cheapo
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2001, 11:37 PM
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Such academic wisdom.

I like the sharing of opinions in this forum. At the end of the day, I just do what I think is best and feel comfortable with.

Best wishes to all.
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