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Old 04-09-2001, 05:50 PM
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yal yal is offline
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Maybe your cousins wife lied so she could get a new Coach bag
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Old 04-10-2001, 11:05 AM
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Location: San Antonio, TX
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the rest of the story...

We were discussing this issue this weekend when another friend made the comment that a key for his '96 VW Jetta set him back $34 at the dealership. I chuckled because earlier THAT DAY, my daughter had 2 keys made for her "new" '97 Jetta at home depot. $2.49 each!
Bill Streep
San Antonio
'57 190SL (toy)
'08 S5500 (mine)
'09 CLK550 (wife's)
'06 SLK350 (daughter's)
'11 GLK350 (daughter's)
'03 CLK310 (spare)
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Old 04-10-2001, 01:32 PM
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The Porsche/Audi idea of having the valet key encryption limit speed and RPM sounds like a good one, and I would agree that it's worth more than $10. Regarding sophisticated anti theft measures that make a car key cost over $100.00, first, if an accomplished car thief wants your car, he'll get it regardless of what type of key it uses. Second, is there any statistical proof that encrypted keys are any more effective at preventing theft that a simple steering wheel club? And what's going to happen when the sophisticated anti theft system is ten years old? Will the key still work? Will the car start when it's supposed to? I know that manufacturers always say that gadgets of this type are foolproof, but that never seems to be the case when the car is a few years old. Ask anyone who has an S-class with power door closers. The two people I know who have this system on their cars have had to spend large amounts of money to have pumps, etc. replaced. And who do you know that is breathing, but is incapable of slamming a door hard enough to close it all the way? While I agree that technology is a wonderful thing, gadgetry is not, and only makes for more trouble and expense.
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Old 04-10-2001, 01:42 PM
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Location: Columbus Ohio
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I would agree somewhat with your point about gadgetry....but a few things to remember here...the person that buys a new Porsche for 50-80K probably does not like the looks of a club on his steering wheel...I think at that amount of money it has more to do with look than practicality
In regard to the door closers on an S-class...mine have been repaired(new pump)...I considered the price reasonable considering the original sticker price of the car...I am not the original owner of the car but I would imagine again a person who drops 75K on their auto has some higher expectations of their car....and when things break on those cars one would only expect it to be $$$
I mean it you wanted stone cold practicality I don't think any top of the line luxury car or sports car would be on your shopping why do people still buy them?...

1992 300SD 113K
Columbus Ohio
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Old 04-10-2001, 03:24 PM
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Don't get me wrong either, I LOVE technology for technology's sake. Afterall, with out all the technological "gadgets" of upper-end cars, where would the lower-end cars of today be? 10 years ago such technological "gadgets" as SRS and anti-lock brakes were only found on luxury vehicle. Now they seem to be expected to come on all cars.

My concern is similar to that stated before, what happens 10 years from now when technology takes giant leaps in anti-theft, or any other technology for that matter? Has anyone recently tried to have their pre-Pentium computer serviced? Most likely they'll tell you it'd be cheaper to replace than repair. Computers are computers, be they in your office or in your car, evetually they will be obsolete, eventually they will fail.

As far as computers, that's fine, we all want better PC's and will replace them. But cars... sure, we want better ones, but, unlike computers, people collect and still drive their old cars. It's the passion of the automobile that drives us to cars. (we are posting on an auto site now aren't we? lol)

I fear too much technology in cars will render cars disposable. While there are those who will spend 10 times the original cost (about $3,000) of a 1966 Mustang to restore it, who will be willing to spend 10 times (most likely even more) 35 years from now to restore a 2001 C-class (currently about $30,000)? And that's IF the parts will be available AND the equipment to make those technological parts work is still working.

Afterall, anyone know of anyone who collects (and uses) old PC's?

1985 euro-spec 300E 5spd. twin-turbo AMG aero-kit
1989 300CE AMG aero-kit
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Old 04-10-2001, 04:50 PM
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I've about had it with gimmicks. We don't need all this fancy stuff. Right now I'm using a Mac LC475 with 16 megs of RAM and Netscape 3.1. I also have two telnet windows open. Older PC's can find new life as cheap graphical terminals. Install a base Linux system plus X and some utilities, configure them as Xterms.

The time will come when the growth of automotive gimickry will taper off and demands will shift back to traditional values like quality and craftsmanship. You just wait and see

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Old 04-10-2001, 07:55 PM
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kuan if you want to read

about automotive tech pick up the lates issue of Car and Driver and read about the S600 MB.
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Old 04-10-2001, 08:57 PM
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Pardon my ignorance but how does one start a keyless car with this transponder card? Do you slot in/swipe the card instead of the key? Why do some people think it's the thumbprint that carries the information?
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Old 04-10-2001, 09:26 PM
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To my knowledge, it is a card you keep with you, in your wallet, per say (sp?), and it unlocks the car when you walk up to it, you get it and while it still has communication to the card, the car can be started with the push of a button or something along those lines.
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
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Old 04-10-2001, 10:55 PM
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Steve, MB has memory functions now, depending on the model, with the next-generation smartkey. On 2001's remembers preset preferences on the seat memory and mirror angles, and climate control settings. Never heard of a key that changes engine mapping or speed limiter. Sounds like a good idea at first, until your kid needs the power to merge into traffic, or say avoid an accident at a traffic light or something. On the keyless-go, yes the card that is carried is a transponder, I believe the instructor said the person carrying the card grabs the door handle and pulls out on the handle, then it unlocks the door and unlatches it. I am not sure if all the doors subsequently unlock or not, probably programmable by the owner what all will unlock. To start the car, the brake pedal must be applied and a button on top of the shift knob is pressed. Also if I remember right, the transponder has to be within 4 feet of the receiver, which is located in each front door and the trunk lock. In regards to Blackmercedes comments about the smartkey, the IR and RF functions are purely for locking/unlocking and for the convenience features. RF is used for the locking/unlocking because it has about a 40 foot range. The IR is used for the convenience feature (convenience closing/summer opening) because it needs line-of-sight, MB doesn't want to be sued because you couldn't see if the windows were clear and decided it would be neat to roll up the windows anyways, in the process killing your pet who was in the car, but hanging there head out, or someone was stealing something out of the car and got trapped by the window. As far as the DAS, or driver authorization system, it is operated via a transponder chip in the key. The operating principle described to us was "challenge and response", maybe this is just another way of describing "dual encription", I'm not sure. We were told that a challenge is made via an algorythmic computation, and a correct response must be returned. This is done using no power on the part of the key. The proof of this is the wallet or emergency key that comes with the car. It is quite flat and contains a blade which is used to open the door. The key does fit into the EIS quite nicely, even though it is less than 1/4 of the thickness of the regular smartkey. The emergency key has no remote function and contains no battery, only the transponder required to start the car.....Gilly
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Old 04-11-2001, 07:51 AM
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JS: The only smartkey you can buy now is the "short" smartkey that was introduced in 2001 model year, the one with the relocated panic button. We just got a bulletin a few weeks back stating this. If you need a new smartkey because one is bad, you also need to order a new blade, as the blade from the old, long smartkey is too long and has the wrong clip to attach it with......Gilly
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Old 04-11-2001, 12:40 PM
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You are right, comparing a 65 Stang to a 01 C-Class was a bit off base in the car for car area. but, I still think it will hold true for a 65 Stang vs. a 01 Stang. Sure, the price-point differential is not as extreme, but my point was how will those enthusiasts be able to restore their 2001 Mustang in 35 years? Will anyone be making re-pop ECU's? IMHO, the only reason muscle cars of the 60's and 70's are being restored is because the technology used in the was simple (and, yes, people are restoring 4 door Impalas, Sky-Liners, etc.).

Also, I never implied that cars were in any way better back then. Quite the contrary, I said I love technology for technology's sake. I believe advancements improve the entire automotive industry. To prove my point, I find it ironic that I could buy a 2001 turbo Eclipse that would accelerate better, corner better, and get better gas mileage (while being more environmentally responsible) than an early 80's Ferrari 308, for less, all while being more dependable (and having a better list of standard equipment).

Perhaps you don't see many 1980 model cars in your town, but here in Detroit, I see them all the time (was amazed to see a 76 Olds Starfire GT over the weekend). Yes, cars are disposable, I should have said I believe technology will make cars even more disposable, because the price to repair them down the road will be cost prohibitive.

One day I hope to be able to afford all the new model cars I only lust after now and then this debate will be moot to me. Until then, I am glad I can still get my quality built Benzs by by wrenching them. If their "brains" go, I know it'll cost.

1985 euro-spec 300E twin turbo 5spd. AMG aero-kit
1989 300CE AMG aero-kit

p.s.- and as to restoring "family 4 doors" just look to your fellow members here, I was surprised myself to see how many have 70-80's models they are keeping up, not exactly restoring, but you can't maintain if the parts aren't available.
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