I agree that the older MBs are expensive to maintain. Other than oil changes and filters every 10,000 miles and tires, I've spent about $100 in three years and 35,000 miles on my '79 300SD. Of course I do my repair work and maintenence myself.

One thing nice about the cars before 1981 is that they are simple to fix and maintain. I got an '87 300SDL and I wonder if I bought too new. There are lot of things under the hood that I do not know what they are. I will have to get some new manuals to figure them out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PEH~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't feel I've thrown money in a pit. I have spent a grand total of $1,400.00 on the 4.5 so far this year.

That $1,400 represents a lot of parts (mostly from FastLane and PartsShop), every drop of oil (motor and gear), power steering fluid, ATF and MB coolant, as well as tires, stereo, alignment and about $400 in labor for the few things I couldn't do myself. This on a nearly 30 year old car that is a daily driver. I don't expect to do anything other than feel good projects to the car in the next month and a half or so, and if it holds true I'll be looking at a little over $100/month for the year in upkeep. That ain't too bad for an old ride in my book.

__________________
Mike Tangas
'73 280SEL 4.5 (9/72)- RIP
Only 8,173 units built from 5/71 thru 11/72

'02 CLK320 Cabriolet - wifey's mid-life crisis

2012 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI...at least its a diesel

Non illegitemae carborundum.

190 Engines do have an oil seal and valve guide wear problem at about 100k.

The valve guide problem is partly due to insufficient lubrication getting to the guides when the engine is really hot (Most of the time in the summer).

I've been there and had it done on mine.

However the timing chain thing is another matter.

My garage runs the LINK in the timing chain round to the top where you can get at it, without disturbing anything at the front.
Marks EXACTLY where the link comes.

Then after wiring either side of the link (To stop the chain dropping) removes the link.

Then link the NEW chain to the old one and slowly, manually, turn the engine over, keeping tension on both sides of the chain.
DO NOT MOVE THE CAMSHAFT.

Continue until you have fed the new chain completely in position and ready to put the link back in at exactly where you marked. This way the camshaft timing is maintained

It took them less than 40 minutes start to finish.

Tensioners rarely need to be replaced it the chain stretching that is the problem.

Mike Stone

If the majority here would seem to just spend $1K / yr on W124 mainainace, I am buying mines right now! But, then I read msgs that say $2, $4K, $9K!

Acura must be the most expensive car in the world to maintain, b/c that is the only one I hear about here . I compared equivalent parts on each vehicle. For example, I had to go w/ a reman a/c w/clutch b/c on one of the cars (maybe MB I couldn't find new prices on the net); so they all got prices on reman a/c w/clutch.

Where did I get the prices? Carparts, wrenchead, and what I didn't find on there, I got from other shops on the net, not this one, as I didn't know about it then. Somebody gave me a cheaper prices for one of the items on another post, but the difference wasn't much, plus we have to compare apples to apples (meaning prices obtained from the same source, ie:carparts) . I didn't microanalyze it to the level of oem or not or new vs used, just the specific parts equal condition for all cars.

Please note, I didn't do the list to be biased. I did it b/c I am shopping or will be shopping for a car in the next few months and wanted to compare the MB and VW mainainance to the others. BTW, my VW has been driven 62K miles in about 28 mths (alot of miles per year) and have only had to change the starter ($425 at dlr w/labor), and front left drive axle (about $250 w/labor at dlr too).

Thanks for the replies, all. Unfortunately - and in response to most of you - I lack the tools and experience to DIY and with a two-driver and two-car household I hesitate to dissect my necessary wheels and try to do something this extensive as a first project. I'd be paying a tech.

To answer consumption / history queries:

I've had the car since 40k miles (all maintenance rcords, down to every oil change prior to my taking ownership are documented with MB-certified shop). All oil changes were at 3k miles w/o interruption and used Castrol. Since taking possession, all services have been maintained in kind.

In short - there is no way that this is an abuse/neglect issue. I drive the car fairly hard (after engine and tranny have been warmed), but not irresponsibly so and I keep it clean and well fed.

There are no leaks (had the upper timing cover resealed at 90k - it was only a seep but starting to get a little messy). The car burns all the oil. Consumption goes like this:
Fresh oil change: 1200mi before first quart
Next 1800 miles: one quart every 500-800 miles.
Engine burns faster if I'm making a long high-speed trip (read: 500 miles per quart with a lot of sustained 85mph+). I think due to increased revs. Engine also burns oil faster as the oil breaks down and I'm heading toward a fresh change.

I suspect the lower-end as well as the top end b/c when accelerating hard and revs swing past 5k it blows smoke out the tailpipe. I've only noticed this at night, with a car behind me and the smoke blowing out into their headlights, so I'm not certain what color the smoke is, etc. But there appears to be a lot. It's typical "italian tune-up style", where it appears that I'm "blowing out the buildup".

At 90k service car had compression check - all cylindes w/in 2% of each other and all on the factory-new side of the acceptable range (between 2-3% of what factory spec'd as "new" parameters). In other words - great, even compression readings for 98k miles.

Tailpipe has sooty black accumulation. I'm ruling out running rich, due to oil loss and by the fact that gas/air are controlled by computer. Head gasket seems fine - no oil buildup in coolant reservoir tank, no white smoke on startup, no temp increases or fluctuations, oil carbons up but no water in it, etc.

It simply looks like guides and seals. All three techs I've talked to said "guides and seals" (keep in mind I've only described conditions to them) and said that while not exactly surprised, most 2.6s go to 150-160k before requiring this service. Two techs suggested waiting until 150k to have timing chain done (their reasoning: both have over twenty years in as techs and neither of them have ever seen one break before 200k).

And three techs said that they do a TON of guides and seals around 100k miles, but on 300 E-and-S-class models (M104?), not the 2.6s.

By the way - someone commented as to the 190 being made in an inferior manner as it was the "cheap" mercedes. BS. This car cost over 90% of the cost to produce a 300SEL, but b/c of good marketing MB was able to milk an additional 40% out of the S buyer.

So anyway, your comments are really appreciated. If I roll all the money spent on this car over the five years I've owned it it works out to a little less than $2k/year. Which is by no means a huge figure. Guess I'm just disappointed that the "fabulous" engineering that is MB has such glaringly obvious (and expensive to fix) weak points. Guess I need to do the math on value of car and figure cost of repairing against selling/trading in and payments on something new(er). I don't buy new cars for myself (wife is a different story) as I can't stomach the 20-25% first-year depreciation hit.

And of course, one can always reason that after this "last" infusion of cash there's nothing that can really go wrong for another 100k miles...

makakio:

One quart per 500 - 800 mi is not good but it is not out of norm either. I would keep driving it until it gets worse.

Speaking of dealer service, I was shocked to see the maint records of a car that I was interested in a few years back. This was a car maintained by a dealer on west side of Chicago and it used 20W-50 oil in many oil changes including ones performed at Nov., Dec, Mar, and April. Unbelievable, such thick an oil in the Chicago winter.

The car isn't abused and you still had these problems with normal usage?

In ref to the timing chain, I talked to a tech (not mechanic) for MB, and he said don't change the chain until it starts making noise, not just b/c it hits 100K. Good advice, from someone who could be getting my business (the things I don't work on) if I buy an MB. Yet, i keep reading to change it at 100K.

As for the 190 being cheap, I wasn't the one who said it, but I will give you my opinion....Look at an old MB sales brouchure, the 190 "was" the cheap one, just like the new C class they put out that looks flat in the back like the BMW 318ti. I once spoke to a freind and she said the 190's were for poor people (joking of course), and I thought I wish I was that "poor" so I could afford one . But most people see it and the C class as the less expensive (which it is ) in the MB line.

Yoshi - yes of course the 190 was the least expensive and smallest model in the MB lineup. Point I was making is simply that the cost of building this car (from a materials standpoint) was over 90% the cost of building the E and S classes. But b/c of good marketing and human nature MB was able to charge 20-25% more for the Es (300) and about 40% more for the S-class models (300s - 4s and 5s cost a more due to bigger/more expensive powertrains). I don't see that fitting the Chevette/Camaro comparison that someone posted on this thread - especially as those cars didn't share any parts.

Loubapache - yes, there's always the option of driving it until it gets worse. The only thing I see happening is potentially losing a catalytic converter and having to buy oil. Of course, you can buy a LOT of oil for 2 or 3 grand...

Out here in Calif we run Castrol 20-50 year-round (seeing as how we all own SUVs for the occasional trip to snow country and wouldn't consider having to chain our MBs)...

Appreciate the comments all - keep 'em coming if you like - I'd like to read them.

Makakio

You have my empathy. I traveled a road similar to yours with my ’91 300TE 4-matic. I gave up on it after I drove it about 40K miles in about 2.5 years of ownership as I grew tired of its endless neediness. In my case, the ‘TE never went 3,000 miles without needing attention of some serious type.
I bought a new ML to take its place.

Looking back, the core issue is all about reaching the point where the reliability of the vehicle diminished enough to remove most of the delight of owing & driving a MB. In addition, I had to take the car for fixing so many times that the time spent taking the car for service and picking it up became a serious annoyance. And I have to add that 98% of the work done on the car was done under warranty. The major cost was my time.

It sounds as if you are doing it right, and addressing a large number of issues at a time. If this achieves the goal of having a reliable car, you are ahead of the game. Even though it involves cost.

At the end of the day cars are all about money – what you’re willing to spend to get what you want: If you buy a new MB, you don’t pay much or anything for maintenance for several years, but you pay a lot for the car. An older MB has both cost obligations and maintenance obligations. A high mileage MB has lower cost obligations but much higher maintenance obligations. There is no escape, except perhaps by mass transit (yuck).

So try to keep yer chin up. Mercedes are not necessarily better or worse than anything else on the road, and obviously not cheap to maintain. The expense is part of the image, after all. Any way you care to analyse it, MB sure makes a more fun to own and drive vehicle than almost anything else!

Regards,

__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

all the quotes you mentioned seem high even for california prices.
we do valves and guides for $1350.00 out the door.
timing chain is about $200.00 if clamping rail is ok,chain tensioners in the 103 engines are almost bulletproof.
BEFORE YOU COMMIT TO REMOVING THE CYL. HEAD HAVE A REPUTABLE SHOP INSPECT A COUPLE CYLINDERS WITH A BORESCOPE.
IF PISTON TOPS ARE CRUSTED WITH ASH AND CARBON BUT CLEAN AROUND THE EDGES(WHERE THE PISTON MEETS THE CYLINDER) SOME OR ALL OF THE OIL IS GOING PAST THE RINGS.
ALSO LOOK AT THE CYLINDER WALLS FOR HONE MARKS.IF THE HONE MARKS ARE STILL VERY VISIBLE AT 100K MI. THE RINGS NEVER SEATED, WE SEE THIS MORE THAN TOU WOULD EXPECT.
MF

This may not apply in your situation but you may want to consider it.

In many high mileage diesel engines the oil consumption will decrease after several 1000 miles of synthetic oil usage. It is believed that the detergents and soot dispersants actually clean out the piston rings. You may want to try some Mobil Delvac 1 for 5000 miles or so and see if the situation improves. It is a 5W-40 diesel oil that also works fine for gas engines. It is expensive and hard to find (try a Mobil distributor) and will be too expensive to use long term if oil consumption doesn't increase. The stuff is around $20 /gallon. Mobil 1 may work almost as well but I don't believe its detergent properties are quite as strong. It is certainly easier to find.

__________________
Tom Savage
Vienna, WV
1984 300D Euro
1995 S320

If I did not enjoy turning the wrenches on them then all I would have in my driveway would be Hondas or Toyotas. The Hondas are bullet proof. I am probably going with MB coolant in it next coolant change because the ONLY catastrophic failure I have ever had was on a '91 Mazda MPV van with 125,xxx miles - the radiator came apart at the plastic/metal seam at the top - it would not have been as catastropic if the wife had stopped when it happened . She waited for it to stop on its own $$$. I will be changing the radiator/water pump along with the timing belt at around 110,xxx miles (Honda's recommended timing belt chage interval for this model).
I look at messing with the early 80's diesel MB's as a hobby as much as anything else. The E320 is a garage queen and is driven on weekends - looks good in the garage and is really nice when driven. I do not run it for anything less than 50 miles though.

__________________
Jim

I must admit that toyotas/hondas are bullet proof car. I have a 96 corolla with 90k miles I treat it like an appliances,I drive it hard,change the oil every 3kmiles.There's no leak ,oil consumption or any symtoms just replaced the starter.I'm not being biased I also own a 93 190e which needs a lot of attention.If you're not a DIY earlier mercedes is not for you(if you don't want to maintain one).Thanks

Ron

__________________
96' E320

from "Makakio" I don't know, but I'm that guy...

So thanks again guys for all the feedback. My feedback on this topic months after reviewing the posts goes like this:

I'm in complete and total agreement with those of you who have the opinion that for an MB with 100k+ miles you'd better be ready to spin a wrench to make the cost of ownership liveable.

As mentioned, that's not me.

My attitude is that for my ownership style (pay a tech), I am at the that line where it probably does not make financial sense to continue to own this car much longer.

I plan to have the chain changed out for insurance, deal with the oil consumption (it's leveled off like this: 1Q 1500 miles after a fresh change, then 1Q every 750 miles until next change - 3.5k intervals), hope for the best (everything else appears to be very solid and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the catalytic converter doesn't plug) and then try to get to 150k miles (~ e/o 2003) before handing it to a DIYer and starting again.

Though probably not with a Benz this time. I really have no particular gripes about the brand. I just think that there are more-fun cars to commute with for the $$ (well, that and I cannot afford a C43, etc). The levels of quality, performance and safety among other german and japanese cars have come a loooong way since the early 90s. I'm not certain one needs to purchase a star to get all that anymore.

Oh - if I offended anyone by calling japanese cars POS that was a vent. I own a trouble-free 4Runner and hondas and mazdas have run in the family with great success. But they all feel plasticky and cheap - until you get to flagship Lexus, Acura, Infinity models (read: out of my price range). I think that's what I meant to imply. Heh - I may actually go plastic for the commuter, what with choices like the Subie WRX...

Also, I'll assume that you all know about edmunds.com and their new "true cost of ownership" feature. I haven't checked MB models there yet but I think I will this afternoon. My guess is that I won't be surprised...

Again - thanks guys. And thank you MIKE STONE for explaining the chain-threading procedure. I'm going to see what my tech has to say about that.

Kindest regards,
Makakio

__________________
Makakio
1992 190 2.6
lotsa miles