Actually, if you can't do a lot of your own work, an MB might not be the car to drive from an economy standpoint. I keep mine going at quite a low cost per mile as long as I don't start accounting for my labor. I enjoy doing my own work.

The good news about a Benz is that most every repair I make STAYS FIXED. Many cars I've driven in my 39 years with a drivers license I cannot say that about.

As far as Japanese cars go, my wifes Toyota 4Runner wouldn't start last week and without me at home she got it jumped and took it to the dealer. The car is 4 years old and it was battery time. They charged her $110 for a battery! They also scared her by calling with an estimate of $800 for overdue preventive maintenance including only: plugs, air filter, belts, windshield wipers, pcv valve and they also wanted to "flush" the transmission.

Okay, I'm embarrassed that I'm behind on this maintenance, but I don't drive it and it's not an MB, so I'm not anxious to work on it. It has been a flawlessly good car.

Since I had to leave for Europe on a business trip on Saturday, I did not feel guilty taking off Friday to get all this done. I went to the auto parts store and spent $154 for all the parts needed for the above. I started about 7:30 Friday morning and was finished about 10:00AM. Sooo...... the dealer wanted $800 for 2 1/2 hours labor and $154 worth of parts. Let's see, $800 minus $154 = about $650. $650 divided by 2 1/2 hours = $260 per hour.

Can anyone line these things up in my driveway and let me do as many of them as I can for $700? If so, even at my $700 cut rate, I expect to be retired in about six months.

Soooo....... don't try to tell me that the Japanese dealers are any cheaper or less blood thirsty than the MB folks. Also, Toyotas are not immune to having an acchilles heel here or there themselves. I remember a year or so ago reading Mike Tangas post about his Toyota pickup that had a recall on a serious engine problem.

I don't think any make is immune to similar problems.

Back to my original point. If you can't do at least some of your own work, you will indeed spend big bucks for repairs, particularly at the dealer for an older Benz. Even if you spend several thousand a year in repairs. What kind of new car can you drive for that, a Taurus? Thank you no, I'll drive my wonderful MB's, occasionally gripe about some shortcoming here or there, fix the shortcoming and keep enjoying these great driving automobiles.

My $0.02,

You can spend thousands of $$ on an Toyota, and it will never be a Mercedes.

Likewise, you can refuse to spend a dime on a Mercedes, and it will never be a Toyota.

That being said, there is a reason why ALL luxury vehicles depreciate so rapidly. I challenge the masses to name another vehicle produced in 1985 that holds a candle to my 500 SEL on the road today. I do put about $1500 worth of maintenance into my car a year. That may seem high to someone still driving a 2-door Toyota Corrolla, but she (Old Blue) responds with a resounding "thank you" every time I reach the open highway.

Another consideration: this 190 was 'free' to me (from a boss as a "vesting" car plan), so really I've never paid anything more than insurance and maintenance on it. That's totalled about $8k over five years - about what I'd expect to pay for ANY car (tires alone are almost $2k of that). If I traded the Benz (or sold it), reinvested the cash into a new car with "included" maintenance (let's not go down that path discussion-wise) - or didn't account for maintenance at all - and didn't want to spend more per year than I do now I could afford something in the $15-17k range. THAT'S a joke, in my book. So again the goal becomes getting another year-and-a-half (or more if it's still going strong) out of the 190, then biting the bullet on another purchase before it becomes a truly massive money pit.

Makakio

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Makakio
1992 190 2.6
lotsa miles

Someparts you are better off gettiing new, some used. Buy new from here or dealership. In MD I highly recommend used from PTA or POTOmac German Auto. Hope it's ok to mention that on the site.

Tank is right!
Try pgauto.com

Yeah I'm in a similar situation with the 500SEL. It was given to me for free and to date I have put about $5500 in labor and other things that it needed. This includes new tires, new exhaust, and replaced transmission.

I must say that the car runs real good now but it still has some cosmetic things that I don't like. I suppose a full afternoon of attention to it will bring it back up to good condition.

Overall I learned some lessons with this car. It's never a good idea to accept a used and abused luxury car, even if it's for free. Shop around and in the end get what makes you happy.

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1985 500SEL 124k miles
2001 Honda Civic EX

I agree wholeheartedly with LarryBible and Oldblue...You may pay more for a particular item on an MB, but for the most part when you fix it, it STAYS fixed.

I own a 79 MB. Years ago, I owned a 79 GM car, and I could get a starter for it for less than $50. However, it was relatively difficult to install, and I had to replace it at least every TWO YEARS! Sometimes more. My 79 300SD has had ONE starter replaced. ONE!

The interior and suspension of that same GM car was NOTHING like the interior and suspension of my SD. That car rattled, squeaked, vibrated, shook--half the interior was plastic!...NONE of which happens in my MB, which is obviously much older NOW than that car was THEN. I have friends with Hondas and GM cars that are YEARS newer than my car that are also plastic-covered rattle-boxes.

My girlfriend's Toyota Camry is the most "vanilla" driving experience I've ever had. That car has NO personality or "road feel". It also has a few squeaks and rattles as well, too many for a 96 model, for sure! She recently spent $1,200 fixing various oil leaks, vibrations and other problems. If I exclude cosmetic improvements (wheels, floormats, etc.), I haven't spent that much on my car since I've OWNED IT!

You may pay significantly more for an MB part, but more often than not, you will replace that particular part FAR LESS frequently than with most other cars of the same age. And it will drive better, run better, and squeak and rattle far less than any Honda or Toyota or GM or Chrysler car of the same age.

To some of us, the superior driving experience is worth a few bucks. You get what you pay for.

Mike

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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
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1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
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1985 300TD
270,000 miles
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1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

And I would like to add a point. No matter how old your Mercedes is, you still can buy parts for it. I just found out they still sell parts for the '50 vintage MB through Mercedes Classic Center. Try to get a part for an early '80s American or Japanese from the manufacturer, fat chance. After market , maybe. That is why so many old MB are still on the road, looking and handling like they just rolled off the asembly line. If you don't mind the repair cost, these cars are virtually built to run till you are tired of it.

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95 R129
04 Infiniti G35.5 BS
10 X204

Makakio (Matt) --

Brian here -- haven't spoken in awhile. Looks like you've moved on up the hill from Los Gatos to Scotts Valley; see what marriage will do.

Anyways, was at Laguna Seca to watch the CART Champ car and Toyota Atlantic races this weekend. Honda had a huge tent there. I tell ya, as much as I like my 16V, that new 2002 Acura 3.2 TL Type S looks pretty tempting. A good friend of ours just bought one -- about $34K out-the-door. They are pretty sweet!

Brian16V

MY 89 190E 2.6 that I recently sold has a bad exhaust valve. IT wouldnt idle right. I bought a new valve (30 bucks), with a headgasket set and valve seals, and did the job for about 300 bucks myself. Its not too hard. My mechanic (worked for mercedes for 15 years) charges about 750 to do a head gasket on a 103 six cylinder (300E). I think that is very fair. Alot of people I see get taken, but doing this job on these engines is relatively simple.

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93 300D 2.5 Turbo, Black/Palomino 273K
09 E350 Black/Black 41K

Are you kidding!?! An American car isn't a Mercedes or BMW, you can just go to any auto parts, even in the smallest town, and pick up a part. Try breaking down on the road in a small town and go get a part for your Mercedes..... reality check buddy.

So many MB's are on the road, bc a load of money has been dropped into them. Any car you drop that kind of money on, will stay on the road. It depends if it is worth it to the owner..... Could be on the Mercedes, for me, maybe

I think that is WAY fair! I paid 1.5k at the dealership to have mine done (on a '93 190e 2.6). I should have come to NY for that job!

Yosshimura,

About buying parts for American cars - I know you can buy simple parts like water pumps, alternators, wires, etc. for any American car at a local parts store, but you can't buy replacement parts for the interior, transmission, exterior trim, etc. My father drove mainly Cadillacs, Mercedes, and one Buick. He was a mechanic for Union Oil Co., and did all the work on our cars. He even painted our cars himself.

If you have an 80's or even early 90's vintage American car or older, very little is still carried at the dealer. It would upset him to no end that dealers stop stocking parts so quickly.

If you own a Mercedes of any vintage, the dealer still carries the part. Trust me. No car maker comes close to Mercedes in stocking parts for their cars.

I think you're overlooking a lot of faults of BMW's. Yeah, MB has some flaws that I think are unacceptable, but BMW has just as many weak spots in different areas. Most of the techs on this site at independent garages work on BMW's, too, and have commented several times as such.

The depreciation subject of BMW's and MB's has come up before on this site, and postings of the same year 5-series and MB come up with nearly the same Kelley Blue Book price.

You have to compare apples to apples, too. The direct competitor to the E-series MB is the 5-series BMW. They are nearly the same size and price, new.

Last, you seem to be so critical of MB's in all of your postings, please don't buy one. Go out and buy a BMW. You'll surely be happier.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

The guys over at the BMW tech forum must be hiding all the faults ....seriously, I don't see that many issues being posted. You are right, I might be happier in the long run with the BMW due to costs.

I am going to follow up on the BMW problems and see if I come up with any more

Hey Brian16V - your profile doesn't allow a private email. Send me one at:

makakio@yahoo.com

Want to get in touch w/ you.

Maka

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Makakio
1992 190 2.6
lotsa miles