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  #1  
Old 01-03-2002, 11:43 AM
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Location: New York City Burbs
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How many hours for timing chain&rails job? 84 190E

Well I have the parts and I'm getting cold feet.

My 84 190E has 170,000 miles on it and I feel that my timing chain is living on borrowed time. I do have a bit of clatter on a cold start up also indicating possible tensioner problems. A little weak in the power dept and a little hard to start up.

I check my benz manuals and see what I have to go through to get that damn chain cover off: geez! I thought my 944 cars were bad. It wouldnt be so bad if I didnt have to drop the oil pan. That engineer who designed the oil pick up tube to be attached to the back of the chain cover must have had a sadistic streak in him.

I may take the easy way out and just roll in the new chain and replace the tensioner with out the guide rail.

1. How many hours to do the job right?
2. Will an 'over the counter' harmonic balance puller work?
3. Does anyone without that 'pocket size size slide hammer' to pull the pins out have any suggestions on making one or a good substitute?
4. The flywheel lock: Is that a Benz specific one?
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'84 190E 2.3
'83 Porsche 944 (track car)
'84 Porsche 944 (parts car)
85.5 Porsche 944 (sled)
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2002, 12:40 PM
agupta
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the tech at the dealer (where I go for major jobs) gave me an estimate of 1 hour labor for just the tensioner, and 3 hours labor for tensioner plus chain. For tensioner plus chain plus upper guides, he said about 5-6 hours labor. Its an 85 190E 2.3 - I have 125K, and am planning to get at least the chain and tensioner replaced - I also have a bit of a clatter on cold start. About the upper guides, he said it was not a problem area in the 190E's, at least till 200K, so I might hold off on that.

Meanwhile, be sure to change your oil more frequently than ever, maybe at 2.5K.
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2002, 01:14 PM
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Don't want to scare either of you BUT the only CORRECT way to do this job is by removing the front cover & oil pan. IN MB dealer this job would take 10-12 hrs by trained MB tech. THE distributor drive gear must be replaced & the tensioner rail should be replaced as well.
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  #4  
Old 01-03-2002, 03:00 PM
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Location: Goldsboro, NC
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84 190E 170,000. It had the timing chain replaced before I bought it. It had 104,00 when I bought it. The plastic face on the tension rail failed and I had large bits of plastic in the oil pan which blocked the oil tube pick up and lost oil pressure. Also found bits of aluminum from the chain grinding on the tension rail in the oil filter. Took me 3 days before I could get the timing cover off and inspect everything. I did not find any wear on the distributor gear, guides or the tension rail pins. I plan on replacing the tension rail, gaskets and seals and gaskets. Should take another two days. I hope it will be worth it. The car had good performance.

One question I hope someone can help me with. I want to check the timing. Which way does this motor turn? I believe it is clockwise as you face the engine from the front. None of my manuals help.
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'00 Mazda MPV Family's car
'83 300D 235,000
'84 109E 175,000
'74 280C 125,000 in garage; needs rehab or sell for parts???
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  #5  
Old 01-03-2002, 03:05 PM
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I used a puller from Autozone loaner program. Worked well. Use a short piece of angle iron to lock the flywheel. You will have to raise the engine about 4 inches to unbolt the oil oick up tube.
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'00 Mazda MPV Family's car
'83 300D 235,000
'84 109E 175,000
'74 280C 125,000 in garage; needs rehab or sell for parts???
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2002, 03:46 PM
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Thanks for the replies MBDOC & David

MBDOC- Thanks for some straight answers. I bet the dealer mech has some good tricks up their sleeve as well! And the familiarity with the car is a real time & knuckel saver.

David- Did you use a hoist to get the motor up? Or did you get a jack underneath it? I dont have a hoist but hate renting cause of the time pressure to return the tools
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'84 190E 2.3
'83 Porsche 944 (track car)
'84 Porsche 944 (parts car)
85.5 Porsche 944 (sled)
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2002, 05:35 PM
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I rented a hoist. The hoist was set up so that you could hook it up to trailer hitch. I borrowed a chain from Autozone. Worked great. I removed all oil pan bolts, engine mount bolts, brake boost line and fuel return line before lifting. I put two small wood blocks between the engine and mounts as it was raised for back up. I did not want to trust the hoist while my hands were in the pan. Rented hoist for 1/2 day. Will rent hoist again when I am ready to make sure no debris got into pan and reconnect to oil pickup. I was not able to raise the engine enough to remove the pan.

I am wondering if I should replace the chain while I am in there. I will examine the chain after I have the tensioner rail replaced. If there is slack, I may go ahead and put the third chain on.
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'00 Mazda MPV Family's car
'83 300D 235,000
'84 109E 175,000
'74 280C 125,000 in garage; needs rehab or sell for parts???
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2002, 05:03 AM
Neil Eglintine
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By all means change your chain. (My 190E has 195k on it with the original chain).

However, I believe that clatter on startup on this engine is more likely to be wear in the valve gear rather than the timing chain.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2002, 09:29 AM
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Couldnt get it up high enough, eh?

I am not surprised that the motor didnt come up high enough. (It's setbacks like this that stress me out when renting hoists. Enough that you want to pack the whole used car thing in , and lease a fresh car like the masses out there.)

1. The manual says to remove the front sway bar also. Did ya do that? Did it help?

2. Was the motor high enough to unbolt the oil pick up tube (in order to get the front cover off?

I was thinking of just getting my floor jack under the front pully and jacking away to get it up.
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'84 190E 2.3
'83 Porsche 944 (track car)
'84 Porsche 944 (parts car)
85.5 Porsche 944 (sled)
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2002, 03:00 PM
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David (Kennyandco),

You can tell which way the engine turns by looking at the fan blade. When turning in the correct direction, the blades will pull air through the radiator. Remember though that because of the belt routing, the fan may turn in the opposite direction than the crank.
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2002, 05:03 PM
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Motor Turns Clockwise (when looking at front)

I checked the manual and the cam wheel goes clockwise. If your looking at the front of the car.
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Patrick Leber
'84 190E 2.3
'83 Porsche 944 (track car)
'84 Porsche 944 (parts car)
85.5 Porsche 944 (sled)
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2002, 07:45 PM
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190E

Thanks Patrick and Dennis. Now that I know which direction the engine runs I can start.

Patrick: I did not want to remove the sway bar, but I just reviewed the manual on removing it at it appears easy. With the sway bar out the pan will come out foward. I am not sure if a floor jack would leave you enough clearance but worth a try. I may try your method when the timing cover goes back on.

The motor was high enough to remove the oil pick up tube bolt(13mm). Then I set the motor back down, unbolted the timing cover and there was enough room to withdraw the pickup tube with the cover.

Do you have any leaks around your cam cover? I do. Been through two gaskets. The cover appears a little worped. Will try to have a local shop straighten it, if not will go with a new one: about $150.

I know how you feel about setbacks. My wife sometimes complains about keeping and taking care of older vehicles but I remind her we spend very little on repairs when you factor out tires, brakes, batteries and other normal wear items. Besides, our old Benzs ride and perform better than many new cars.
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'00 Mazda MPV Family's car
'83 300D 235,000
'84 109E 175,000
'74 280C 125,000 in garage; needs rehab or sell for parts???
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2002, 02:17 AM
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Posts: 376
Herr,

DO NOT use a jack on the pulley to raise the motor. No telling how much damage that will cause. I used the engine hoist to get mine (16V) up, but use a floor jack and a 2 X 4 on the corners of the oil pan to lower it after I was done. No problem...but I would hate to find out how much a 16V aluminum oil pan is if I damaged it....

The eight valve motor MUST be easier to work on then that damn 16V. Don`t be afraid of it. If you get in over your head you can always tow it to a shop to finish the job.

Tinker
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  #14  
Old 01-07-2002, 10:28 AM
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York City Burbs
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You're right Tinker.....I'll keep the jack off of the crank. I'll call an old friend and get his hoist from him , but its a ride. At least it'll be not as stessful as fighting a rental deadline.

David, over torquing that valve cover really kills it. Its funny, when ya see a leak , you think it needs more tightening. Sometimes that widens the gap more! I replaced that valve cover seal a while back and used a bunch of RTV goop with it. For the most part, it worked pretty well.


Thanks for the support folks. I'm gonna have to make the time to do it right. Get a hoist and rip it down. Rails and chain.
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Patrick Leber
'84 190E 2.3
'83 Porsche 944 (track car)
'84 Porsche 944 (parts car)
85.5 Porsche 944 (sled)
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2002, 03:00 AM
bg99ers
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Hello Patrick;
You might want to check this website out. Its called 190E revolution mb190.tripod.com and in the tech section of the site, My friend Daniel Has featured timing chain tensioner/ Timing chain replacement for a 190E 2.3-16V. The process is exactly the same for 8V motors as well. You dont really need to remove the oil pan to replace these two items. The job can be done very easily in 2-3 hours if not less with a help of a friend. I am also changing my timing chain & tensioner MAYBE TOMORROW (some one smashed my car last night and drove off) Thank god everything is okay with the mechanical items. Good luck and let us all know what happens!
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