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  #31  
Old 05-31-2002, 09:16 AM
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Location: Atlanta Ga
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Well, another day of the off again,on again thing with this coolant....Last night she ran fine all the way home (for about a 45 min commute in light traffic) but as soon as I pulled up she shot back up to 110+ and coolant leaked from the overflow and cap area. I topped her off and left her alone all night because of other commitments that prevented me from getting back to her.

This morning I topped her off again with the heater and car
running until the heater was blowing hot in which I added more coolant to the max level and took her out for our drive into work. On the way in she was at 82 as usual until I got about a block from the job. She went up to 100 steady and I noticed a smell of coolant and when I turned the heater on it was blowing very luke warm instead of hot.Sure enough, I parked and coolant is all over the ground again and bubbling around the cap (this time I did notice that the cap was not on tight as I was going to keep it off at first because it would run cooler longer with the cap off when I was just trying to get her to burp--tried it again this morning so...)

I just read about the block access and I'm wondering if that is for the 560 engine (because I've never had to use it before) and where exactly is the "accessable to fill" (so I can run out and see if I can find it) with coolant? I wonder if I should try one of those "flush and refill" places that have the systems to check the pressure, etc later on today after I exchange the expansion tank.What do you guys think? How long has it taken anyone here to change out their thermostat? It looks to be just as easy as the others I've replaced but looks time consuming (not that I won't take the time necessary to get my baby back in shape). Thanks again for the replies guys. Any others are welcome too at this point and could use all the help I can get.

Alan
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1997 E320
1986 560SEL
1983 300SD
1972 220D
1970 250C SOLD
1971 250C SOLD
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  #32  
Old 05-31-2002, 02:41 PM
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Sorry, the access plug is on the head. I think it is in the same spot on most or all of MB heads. At the very rear of the head, on the intake side. Now of course this is for inline engines.

I'm not sure about V-8's. But I would look anyway. When you fill from a low spot like the expansion take, coolant will not fill certain passages. The air cannot escape. It's kind of like priming the pump.
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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
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2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #33  
Old 05-31-2002, 03:05 PM
moedip
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FORGET THE AIR BUBBLES - THAT AIN'T IT! Think about what you wrote "Last night she ran fine all the way home (for about a 45 min commute in light traffic) " There ain't no way in that hot spot down below that would allow an air pocket to sit there not cooling for 45 minutes then BOOM cause the car to overheat. If it was an air pocket - it would act up as soon as you hit operating temperature. I would suspect three things in the following order based on the facts you give that as soon as you came off the freeway and arrived at home the thing overheats.
1) Since it runs fine on the highway where there is a lot of air going through the rad to cool it - I still suspect the viscous fan - if it does not draw enough air through the rad - you will have the problem you see. If the problem is intermittent - so could the fan be intermittently acting up - getting ready for total failure.
2) if the thermostat was sticking it should be acting up from cold going to warm as it tries to open - to have the car run for 45 minutes with normal temp then overheat - then when you cool the engine it acts normal for awhile makes me doubt that it is the thermostat - but what the hay - cheap to try. I would still run the car for a couple of days without a thermostat and see if it still overheats - if it does - go back to suggestion #1
3) Since you say the aux fans do work the only other thing that I can think of is a head gasket -
ARE YOU REALLY SURE THE VISCOUS FAN IS LOCKING WHEN THE ENGINE IS HOT???? If the fan is not locking when the engine is hot - the car will work good when you have enough airflow from faster speeds - but will climb in temp. when you go slower if the viscous fan does not pull enough air past the rad.
Since I cannot see you car - I am using the same common sense logic I use when I diagnose my cars. Hope you can see my logic.
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  #34  
Old 05-31-2002, 05:05 PM
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Location: Atlanta Ga
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Well, I drove her around town during lunchtime for about 30 or so minutes stop and go (85 degrees outside) and she's stayed at 80-85 so she's acted right since I added the coolant from this morning. I called an indy MB shop buddy who says that sometimes they have just had to keep driving the 560's with the heater on to get them to act right after they flush and fill em for customers...He also says that the air pocket is more than likely right at the thermostat (what they've found) I'm taking it by there now and will be having her checked for head gasket,etc if by the time I do everything it still acts up.He says to just keep filling it and change out the tank because it is leaking allowing the pressure to act up. Anyway, on my way outta here to try to take out the thermostat to test as suggested and will update you guys soon as I know what's up. Wish us luck!

Alan
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1986 560SEL
1983 300SD
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1971 250C SOLD
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  #35  
Old 05-31-2002, 05:26 PM
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I'm kinda with moedip here -
Another thing to keep in mind is that when you pull off of the freeway (where the engine has been loaded up) the cooling system is trying to dissipate the heat from the higher rpm/load and it does not sound like it is able to do it.
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  #36  
Old 05-31-2002, 05:41 PM
moedip
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Wanna know why I am emphatic about the viscous fan?? Two years ago I went to Indiana to see my sister and every time I let the car idle for a while it started to overheat - started driving and the temp went down. The viscous fan was still turning pretty fast but I called my mechanic friend long distance and he said to change it and sent one overnight to me at my sister's. Changed it in about an hour the next morning. The new one locked up real nice when the engine was hot - you could hear the air rushing when you revved the motor. Solved the problem. It's hard to tell if the fan is actually at engine RPM when it is supposed to be locked from heat - His symptoms are so much like mine (but a lot worse) - that's why I think the fan is slipping when it should not.Time will tell if I have egg on my face! :p
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  #37  
Old 05-31-2002, 05:51 PM
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What milage did you change it moedip?
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  #38  
Old 05-31-2002, 05:53 PM
moedip
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155,000 miles approx.
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  #39  
Old 05-31-2002, 06:04 PM
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Sorry. Didn't read the last post.

If you can run for so long within good temp and then shoot up when you reach your destination (clue- now going slow, stop and go), then your circulation is probably good. The problem in in heat transfer (ie. radiator) when going slow and while stopped. The things that help heat transfer are a good pump and a good fan.

I agree... check the fan.
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'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

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  #40  
Old 06-03-2002, 10:43 AM
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Location: Atlanta Ga
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Good morning guys! So, this is all starting from Friday...went to buddy's shop and of course when I got there all we could see wrong was the neck on the expansion tank leaking in which I just filled up again and planned on just changing it out and taking it back to the shop today for them to check her out (I didn't want to keep him there late because they had a load of "paying" customers and the weekend rush hour,etc). After letting her sit for a while as we chatted, I was able to top her up a little bit (mind you it did NOT overheat but probably went up to about 89-90 in 95 degree weather in stop and go traffic).

He gave me four containers of water (just in case) and I took her home when the traffic died down (again, she didn't overheat per se but was higher than normal). Stopped at Pep boys and picked up some water wetter, some new hoses and headed out to change out hoses, thermostat and expansion tank. After changing out the tank, I disconnected the top radiator hose and just ran the garden hose water flowing straight into the housing near the thermostat until the water run back out of the radiator.

I then proceeded with the heater blasting to just keep the water running until it was indicative of a "flowing" system and then replaced the hose to the radiator. I pressed the hose for what seemed like an eternity to get air out of it (which my buddy says they've also had to do on occassion) until she actually made a "burping" sound and I then topped her up again and also added the water wetter to the system to see what would happen (mind you, I didn't replace the thermostat yet).

Test drove on the highway and back and she ran fine at 80-85 at midnight and 67 with NO traffic. Yesterday, I took her out again
but this time I ran her in stop and go traffic and also on the highway (and it was on the hottest day of the year so far at 100 + degrees!). She ran at a steady 82 and topped out at about 90 dropping back down to 82! So far so good but of course I've already ordered another fan clutch, and water pump just because...

I'm contemplating replacing my fan with "full time" electric fans and have been for a while. Since this last fiasco, I'm REALLY wanting to do this. Is there any particular brands of electric fans that are available for the 126? I'm also wondering if anyone has used this water wetter because it seems to be a pretty good product. SO FAR SHE "SEEMS" TO BE RUNNING FINE but of course I didn't drive her today (I have been neglecting one of my 250C's and I needed to wake her up)

Thanks again for coming thru fellas! I don't know if this saga is over yet because she's in the garage "resting" but will keep you abreast of my developments.

Alan
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1986 560SEL
1983 300SD
1972 220D
1970 250C SOLD
1971 250C SOLD
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  #41  
Old 06-03-2002, 10:55 AM
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Don't be surprised if a new fan clutch does not lower coolant temp. gauge readings. My 126 has a new radiator, head gasket, hoses, coolant exp. tank, exp. tank pressure cap, 50/50 MB coolant/H2O. Just replaced fan clutch with OEM item. Fan blade was spinning for quite awhile after shutting engine off. Blade now stops right after shutting engine off; however, my temps still go from 87C to 100C if I get stuck on the freeway if there's been an accident.

I've also experimented with 40/60 & 30/70 concentrations and have used Wetter Water. Temp. gauge readings never change.

126 owners manual indicates that rising temps are quite normal, so I'm going to put this fluctuating temp. issue to sleep.
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  #42  
Old 06-03-2002, 02:11 PM
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Check and make sure the A/C condenser is clear of debris. Also, make sure the space between the A/C condenser and radiator is clear of debris.

When I took out the radiator, I couldn't believe how much gunk/junk was in between.
You should be able to see through the condenser very easily.

If you've changed to R134a and a running the SINGLE aux. fan, change it to dual pusher fans.

I would look at dual 11-inch SPAAL puller fnas (2700 CFM) if they could fit when you remove the viscous fan. You'll need to wire in a Derale relay (everything else out there is junk, IMHO), which is adjustable, and has provisions for turning on the fans when the A/C is turned on as well.

Do a search for SPAAL fan and you'll find my links. BTW- I might have spelled it "SPAl".

Good luck,
:-) neil

PS: you did install a BEHR replacement radiator. . .
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  #43  
Old 06-03-2002, 04:00 PM
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Thanks Neil...yes the radiator that was replaced was a Behr (I think so anyway because I bought 2 new radiators for 2 560's-I sold the other one ) I'll look and tell you for sure when I get to her... The radiator/condenser area was pretty much clear when I checked Saturday except for a total of 2-3 bugs and the front of the radiator still looks brand spanking new...have you tried the twin fans or know of anyone that has on their/your MB?

I'll check out your thread also to read up on it...
Thanks again

Alan
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1997 E320
1986 560SEL
1983 300SD
1972 220D
1970 250C SOLD
1971 250C SOLD
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  #44  
Old 06-03-2002, 04:32 PM
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I haven't tried the dual fans, only the single 16-inch puller fan for our AMG M104 wagon (2300 CFM).

She works beautiful, and keeps the temps very cool.

Satish of www.mbcoupes.com installed dual 12-inch fans (can't tell if their DUALS or two independent 12-inch fans) in his 560SEC with a M119 V8.

Check out:
http://www.mbcoupes.com/memberscars/T/satishtummala/page13.htm



Good luck,
:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E
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  #45  
Old 06-03-2002, 04:48 PM
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Yea I've actually seen Satish's pics of the fans and that was close to the setup I was looking at originally when I saw it.I believe that the radiator I have in her right now is a Nissens and so far it has been a good investment because when I removed the old one, the neck was surely broken although it had enough room for the PO to just slide the hose up as close as he could to salvage it and I'm thankful that it didn't blow loose before I replaced it.
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1986 560SEL
1983 300SD
1972 220D
1970 250C SOLD
1971 250C SOLD
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