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  #16  
Old 09-04-2003, 10:30 PM
mike690003's Avatar
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Location: Miami,FL
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I have replaced numerous parts and nothing has changed. It still misses when it gets fully warmed up.

New:

voltage regulator
OVP relay
02 sensor
fuel filter
cap and rotor
plugs and wires
fuel filter


cleaned idle control
numerous bottles of techron
replaced all vacuum hoses

and it still misses when warmed up....I have to unplug my new 02 sensor, because the missing gets even worse. My air/fuelmixture is set to spec.
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1987 mercedes 300E
1995 e320 conversion(hated the 300e grill)
HID/Xenon (D2S)
Keyless Entry
Monochromatic Paint (Custom Blue)
Smoked Tails
Flat Badged (front)
Debadged (rear)
custom "carbon fiber" console
18 inch HP EVO rims
Sold! Now I drive a Monte Carlo SS
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member.../352975_67.jpg
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2003, 11:17 PM
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misses?

I wonder what you mean by "misses" . Is it a always the same cylinder that misses? If so have you determined which one? If not, could it be the timing chain?
Have you checked the proper ground on ignition coil? Is your two-pol temp sensor sending the right data? (one to ignition control unit and the other to ECU pin 21).
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'88 Benz 420 SEL
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'99 Land Rover Discovery

86 300E - Manual (sold)
88 260E (sold)
84 944 (sold)
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2003, 11:01 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 758
Time Out for the Diesel Benz

Greetings All,

Took this day off to get my 300SD back to where it needed to be as far as front brakes, new rotors, wheel bearing repack and the left outer tie rod end. Actually everything went quite smoothly despite the defiant tie rod end replacement. I didn't figure it would cooperate, but as things go, it didn't have any choice and got changed anyway. Makes a big difference with more than an 1/8 inch of brake pad and the new end seems to have gotten rid of the creak while turning the wheel at a stand still. I'm pleased with it, at any rate. Next venture on this beast will be a condenser change out as I suspect the other one is leaking. Just need a few hours of free time and that will be another job completed.

Yeah, if I can avoid the inevitable 300E problem I am still experiencing, I should be able to get every routine item done on my car before the snow flies. Did a little research on the OVP and noticed there were a few different relays used depending on the application and year you have as well as the testing on the alternator to ensure proper voltage response based on the rpm, year and model of your Benz. I'll have to check these items out to ensure the process of elimination. The cd on this car sure doesn't go into any great detail on any other item causing problems. Sad that no other mechanical items are even mentioned that could affect idle or the lack of. I'm still not convinced that any owner should have to just buy every item on a long list to see if it fixes the problem. If that were the case I'd rather spend the money and time to drive the 12 hours down to autowerks and let them diagnose the problem for me. I'm sure most merc. techs have seen this problem come and go daily and know the most likely cause. I'd just wish they would chime in with some helpful info to lead me in the right direction for decent troubleshooting.


Any other ideas out there, don't hesitate

Charles
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'84 300SD 256,000 Gold on Brown (Mileage Award)
'86 300E 246,000 Blue on Tan
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  #19  
Old 09-07-2003, 08:44 AM
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CTAYLOR 738

thanks for your HELP.
Please I have problem with the idle in my 190 E, 2.6L, 1988. I think that is problem in the Idle Control Valve.

Please tell me what are the symptoms because of the Idle Control Valve fails.
It can be fixed, calibrated or is neccesary to change ?

Please do you have come pictures indicating its location?

Thanks


Mario Farias

laprefar@cantv.net
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  #20  
Old 09-07-2003, 07:27 PM
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This appears to be really common!!

This appears to be a really common problem. I will be overjoyed when my dear Merc stops behaving the exact same way. There's got to be someone who will help.
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  #21  
Old 09-08-2003, 01:49 AM
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Answers hopefully to come

Greetings Fellow Solution Seekers,

Mario your idle control valve if it's located in the same place that it is on a 300E is located under the air filter housing right in front. Pretty easy item to locate as it's the only valve that is about two inches in diameter with a tee on the end with about an inch or so hose slip fitted to each end of the tee. There's also a two wire connector plugged into it. Two bolts hold it to the engine in a rubber surrounding clamp. I clean the valve part of mine out with carb cleaner and then sprayed it down with wd-40 after it was completely dry. There wasn't much dirt in there and cleaning it didn't make a difference in the idle for me. Someone in another post mentioned that they applied 12 volts to the terminals and the valve rotated but that doesn't necessarily mean the circuit supplying the voltage is doing it's job, only that the valve moves when power is supplied.
If you hadn't already read Chuck Taylors last seperate post about solving his idle problem, you may want to have a look see.
We're still out here waiting for some good ideas on where to go from here. Don't want to give up on this one until it's fixed. I can wait if I need to.


Charles
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'84 300SD 256,000 Gold on Brown (Mileage Award)
'86 300E 246,000 Blue on Tan
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2003, 02:24 AM
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Location: shepparton Victoria Australia
Posts: 23
Talking

I had a similar problem, had new supressors fitted to plug leads and the problem is gone, it seems that most times you have these sorts of problems such as engine missing as described it turns out to be electrical, somthing to do with leads,plugs etc.

I have since done approx 5000 ks without a problem. It would be so bad at times it would not be able to pull it self along. Worth a look anyway.
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  #23  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:16 AM
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Greetings Geeceed,

I am curious to find out what your exact idle problem was, and what model it pertained to. Most of those that have chimed in to my post with similar problems may or may not have what I am describing as a problem, so I'll go over it again and see if we are similar in symptoms.
Initially when I start the car cold it runs fine with near perfect idle. After the engine has warmed to operating temps, let's say 3-5 miles and the car is brought to a stop for say a minute or so in drive it goes into this bumping/missing action which lowers the rpm to around 500-550 rpm. At the same time it's acting up in most cases, the temp gauge starts to increase slightly, on a warm day of 85-90 it increases to about 110C if in traffic. When you start to accelerate it continues to miss until you can achieve an rpm of about 2000 at which point it smooths out like nothing is wrong at all and power is restored. Reading post on several sites this problem seems to be common, but not saying that the actual culprit causing the problem is the same as several think it is fuel related, others lean toward air intake and still others find it to be an electrical problem from a simple cap,wire and rotor replacement to everything electrical under the hood that is hooked to the ecu. I will tell you that there are an awfully lot of parts to cover if this is the case to isolate this problem. It would be hard to understand that an electrical system such as wires, cap, coil and plugs that perform great at high engine speeds die when it comes down to idling at 600rpm's verses 3000rpm. I am almost convinced seeing as engine temp goes up at an idle and that's where the problem escalates, that a bad coolant temp sensor could be a problem if it sends it's input to the ECU for adjustment. The hotter the engine seems to get, the rougher the idle tends to get as well.

If you have light to shine upon this problem that I am just not seeing, and trust me, there's a lot of dark area here. Give us your knowledge. I am open to all suggestions that don't open my checkbook up as well with replacement parts that didn't make the difference.

Charles
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'84 300SD 256,000 Gold on Brown (Mileage Award)
'86 300E 246,000 Blue on Tan
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2003, 04:39 AM
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Hello can do........ My car is a 1988 300E 103. Problem was first noticed when it would develop a rough idle at lights or when stationary, not often but enough to be a problem not knowing when it would occurr again. It would gradually get worse and the car could hardly pull it self along, if you could get the reves up it would eventually begin to run properly and everything would be ok.
On checking everything it was found that a suppressor was breaking down now and again causing the problem, I have spoken to other 300e owners and they have experinced similar problems and suppressors have been the culprit. It is hard to believe when it happens that one supressor could cause the motor to run so badly but it does, to the extent that it on one or two occasions stalled totally. I never had problems at high revs.

The overheating was not a symptom with mine.
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2003, 08:41 PM
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Where is this "supressor" located??

How much does it cost??
__________________
1987 mercedes 300E
1995 e320 conversion(hated the 300e grill)
HID/Xenon (D2S)
Keyless Entry
Monochromatic Paint (Custom Blue)
Smoked Tails
Flat Badged (front)
Debadged (rear)
custom "carbon fiber" console
18 inch HP EVO rims
Sold! Now I drive a Monte Carlo SS
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member.../352975_67.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member.../748335_24.jpg
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  #26  
Old 09-08-2003, 10:08 PM
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Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Not a bad idea

Greetings,

Mike the suppressors he is talking about are the metal encased ends to your spark plug wires that attach to the spark plug end. This item can be individually changed out verses the entire cable and other end. I changed out two of them about a year or so ago because of breakage and have one spare on hand. Do you geeseed have any troubleshooting units of measurement for the cable to determine whether they are good or bad? I was starting to suspect that my coil was going out on me, but haven't been able to find a test procedure for that one either on the cd manual. Just felt the longer I sat in drive and not moving that the engine was basically loading up. The temp rise on the engine could be that I was running the a/c during the test to determine whether engine temp played a part in how fast the idle problem started and to what degree it got worse as the engine temp rose. As mentioned, the problem esculated as the engine temp rose, so there is some corrolation between the two. Any thought or test procedures you might have, please chime in.

Charles
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"Tell me and I will listen, Teach me and I will learn, Show me and I will accomplish, Involve me and I will succeed."
'84 300SD 256,000 Gold on Brown (Mileage Award)
'86 300E 246,000 Blue on Tan

Last edited by can-do; 09-09-2003 at 11:38 AM.
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  #27  
Old 09-09-2003, 08:37 AM
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Location: Matthews, NC
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I am thinking that you could possibly have a leaking injector. Not much, but as it sits and idles, that cylender finally loads up and when you start off, it cleans itself out. Above 2000 RPM the leak is not enough to cause a problem.
When you have time, let the car idle until the problem starts really acting up. Stop the engine and remove the spark plugs and look for one that is wet with gas, or is black with soot. If you find this, then at least you have found the cylender. I would then swap this injector with one of the others. Also swap this plug with another one. Don't swap the plug and injector to the same cyl.
For example, If you find soot or gas on #3 cyl, then swap the injector with the one in #2 and the plug with the one in #4.
Then drive the car a few miles and when you return, let it idle again until the problem returns. Check the plugs again. In the above example if #4 plug is wet with gas or very sooty, then replace the #4 plug (or all of them). If the problem is now in #2 then replace the injector. If it is still in #3 then you could have a fuel dist problem.

If none of the above helps you then maybe it will help someone else along the way.
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Last edited by pmckechnie; 09-11-2003 at 08:11 AM.
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2003, 10:49 PM
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Location: Miami,FL
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With a leaking or dirty injector, is it better to have the injectors professionally cleaned or buy a new set of injectors??
__________________
1987 mercedes 300E
1995 e320 conversion(hated the 300e grill)
HID/Xenon (D2S)
Keyless Entry
Monochromatic Paint (Custom Blue)
Smoked Tails
Flat Badged (front)
Debadged (rear)
custom "carbon fiber" console
18 inch HP EVO rims
Sold! Now I drive a Monte Carlo SS
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member.../352975_67.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member.../748335_24.jpg
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  #29  
Old 09-10-2003, 11:25 PM
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Location: PUERTO LA CRUZ, VENEZUELA
Posts: 90
MR. CAN DO

tHANS mR. CAN DO.

I cleaned the ICV with carb cleaner and w 40. It rotates when contacting terminals with 12V.

How ever we don't see its operation when engine is runing.

We taste 12 volts going to the ICV, but we don't feel any change in Engine RPM.

When the A/C is on the IDLE CONTROL VALVE doesn`t actuate in order to compansate the down RPM. It lost almost 300 RPM.

Where is the problem?

Thanks


Mario farias
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  #30  
Old 09-11-2003, 08:10 AM
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I just saw an error in my above post about determining if a rough idle could be caused by a plug or injector. It says "if #4 plug is not wet" and should say "if #4 plug is wet". I will edit the post to fix the problem, but if you have already read it, correct the problem in your memory.

Sorry bout that,
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