Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-20-2003, 04:30 AM
KNanthrup's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 180
Ever get a bad batch of gas?

Well I had quite a little scaretoday with my car. I was driving it to work today and I was speeding up to get around a car for my turn and all of a sudden she started studdering. I slammed on my brakes and got in behind to make my turn and then started out on the next road and it was still doing it... kind of sounded like it was missing on 2 cylinders and I thought I could aslmost hear a pinging type sound. Well, I let up off the gas and it seemed to smoothe out but as soon as i pushed it past maybe 20%, it would do it again. At the stoplight it was idling really rough too... almost thoguht she was gonna die, but no engine light or warning lights came on.

On my break I bought some fuel injector cleaner, dumped it in, then went to Chevron and put their best stuff in it. Since then, I haven't had any trouble at all, it seems like it smoothed it out. I'm praying that it was just the gas and that I don't have a costly repair coming up.

On another note, the reason I thought of gas in the first place was because I was on a tank of gas that I bought at a Shell station that I never go to. I always fill at the same place all the time and never had trouble until this one time. It kind of makes me angry that I pay $2.10 per gallon for gas that ruins my car and that my car won't run on. I always put the best stuff in too, no matter what I won't go under 92 octane, and I never go to those crappy stations like Arco or Tesoro, etc. What's the best stations to use? I've been pretty loyal to a Shell station in town and my car's always been happy with it. Sometimes I'll go to a 76 or Chevron but that's it. I don't mind paying good money for my gas, as long as the gas is good.

Any comments? Experiences?

__________________
-Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-20-2003, 10:00 AM
dtf dtf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South East CT
Posts: 874
Two things:

1. I've recently added fuel injector cleaner (Valvoline) to a very good running car and it caused skipping and a little shuddering. I think I dislodged some crap on the bottom of the tank.

2. My '94 M104 is very fussy about gas brands - it hates Texaco, Exxon and Citgo but loves Sunoco and Mobil. Shell is not its favorite but it works OK.

Maybe some gas line antifreeze or something for water in the lines and tank would help?
__________________
dtf
1994 E320 Wagon (Died @ 308,669 miles)
1995 E300 Diesel (228,000)
1999 E300 Turbodiesel ( died @ 255,000)
2006 Toyota Tundra SR5 AC 4X4 (115,000 miles) rusted frame - sold to chop shop
2011 Audi A4 Avant (165,000 miles) Seized engine - donated to Salvation Army
BMW 330 xi 6 speed manual (175,034 miles)
2014 E350 4Matic Wagon 128,000 miles
2018 Dodge Ram 21,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-20-2003, 10:28 AM
I told you so!
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Motor City, MI
Posts: 2,853
In the past I sometimes had episodes of getting water in the gas tank. I could never nail it to a specific gas station since there was no one station that I patronized. In the carburated days it was easier to diagnose. Just disconnect the fuel line, place it in a glass jar, and crank the engine a number of times. If you see water at the bottom of the sample, then you've found your problem. Easiest yet was my old 66 Corvette. Just open the gas cap and shine a light into the tank. I could vacuum the water out of the tank by siphoning.

If you do find water in the gas, it's best to remove the tank, dry it out, and drain the lines. I never had much luck with dry gas product.

All gas stations have water in the bottom of their tanks. The good ones monitor this water level so it won't get slurped into the gas stream. If you patronize just one station all the time and find water in your car's fuel system, you have just cause to request compensation for repair to have it purged from your vehicle.
__________________
95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-20-2003, 10:36 AM
Southern's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Carol Stream, Il, USA
Posts: 605
I have experienced "bad gas" twice. The easiest cure is to put a bottle of Octane Boost in the gas tank. This will allow your car to perform "normally" again instead of running the car long enough to refill with "good gas".

I use Shell, Mobil, or Speedway gas stations with good success.
__________________
Ray
1998 Mercedes E320, 200K Miles
2001 Acura 3.2TL, 178K Miles
1992 Chevy Astro, 205K Miles
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-20-2003, 10:41 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 700
bad gas...

I once had to fill up at one of those ghetto gas stations, they only had two choices, either regular or supreme, the supreme octane level was 98 which I was surprised with and wanted to try, so I got that. As I later found out, my car did not like that gas at all, it started doing the same thing it did when I put regular in it once, mainly the valves started tapping, performance fell and I only did 300km on the tank.

Went bakc to my old gas station, tapping was gone, mileage went back up, and all was well.

Morale of the story, don't believe signs on ghetto gas stations.

xp
__________________
1985 190E 2.3L - a constant project.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-20-2003, 10:48 AM
Bud
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I use Chevron and twice I've had a problem with fuel. I've isolated it to one particular Chevron station so I avoid it. What's funny is this station is on a main thoroughfare in the Phoenix area and does a lot of business.

I use Chevron because it has Techron in it. BMW used to package Techron under their own brand name and Mercedes dealers would add a bottle of this stuff when they serviced my wife's 190D.

When we recently had a gas shortage in the Phoenix area, I discovered that all the gas sold in the Valley comes over two pipe lines. This is the so-called Phoenix gas that's supposed to reduce emissions. I got to wondering how various brands could be different if it all came from the same source.

I sent a note to Chevron and they told me they put the additives in at the tank farm when they fill their delivery trucks. I'm not sure I buy that but that's their story and they're sticking to it
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-20-2003, 11:18 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,160
Funny thing happened last night.
It was raining very hard here most of the day ( tail-end of Isabel, I guess ).
When I stopped at a local gas station/coffee shop, I noticed the kid working there was in the process of reading the dip on the underground tanks.
At the same time, he was the only one working at the station.
So, every time somebody pulled in for gas, he would proceed to serve them, and walk away from the OPEN covers of the fuel tanks, in pouring rain.
Hmmm, I wan't be getting gas there anytime soon.

P.S. This station is known to serve watery gas.
__________________
2007 C 230 Sport.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-20-2003, 03:30 PM
KNanthrup's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally posted by manny

So, every time somebody pulled in for gas, he would proceed to serve them, and walk away from the OPEN covers of the fuel tanks, in pouring rain.
Hmmm, I wan't be getting gas there anytime soon.

P.S. This station is known to serve watery gas.
__________________
-Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-20-2003, 05:07 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 6,844
I was at a fuel trim conference in Indianapolis last weekend. We had a brief talk from a fuel engineer. He spent a few minutes telling stories about how useless most fuel tank additives were, especially octane boosters.

He also made a point that the feds have legislated minimum levels of additives and as they are expensive, everyone is using the minimum amounts.

A discussion came about on the distribution system is Indy. Seems all their gas comes out of Texas on the same pipeline. All the gas IS the same, EXCEPT that each tanker puts in his password into the filling computer and the appropriate additive packages are added and billed for. One other interesting tidbit; I was talking with one of the sponsers on break and he said that he was at the bulk plant one day where 45,000 gallons of gas were preceeded by 45,000 gallons of diesel down the same pipe. They are separated by a hydraulic feature dubbed a "pig". The pig has to be heavier than the preceeding fluid. One time the "Pig" got lost and was mixed.

The fuel next to the pigs is sold for less.
__________________
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-20-2003, 11:09 PM
Mike Murrell's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,580
The fuel next to the pigs is sold for less. [/B][/QUOTE]

And I suspect this type of fuel ends up at Sams, Costco; Mom-n-Pops.
__________________
Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-21-2003, 04:00 AM
KNanthrup's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 180
Yeah I can see how a majority might be the same but there HAS to be a difference in some. I mean for instance, Arco obviously isn't the same as say 76. I tried Arco once in my truck and it pinged like hell. I hear all kinds of stories about Arco.... sure it's cheap but it's cheap for a reason.

Actually last week I saw a guy filling up his brand new IS300 with 87 at Arco while doing a beer run and all I could do is shake my head at him. What a shame
__________________
-Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-21-2003, 10:26 AM
tigeroscar1's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: las vegas
Posts: 13
I think I got some in Flagstaff

Yesterday I was driving from Las Vegas to Albuquerque for a class. My 260E was running like a champ. I stopped to fill-up at a Chevon. About a half hour later the engine started to sound rough and the economy needle went into the red and the Tachometer rpms also went higher. Gas mileage went form about 24mpg to around 10-15mpg !! Just starting the car the economy is in the red.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-21-2003, 11:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,272
Re: I think I got some in Flagstaff

"Actually last week I saw a guy filling up his brand new IS300 with 87
at Arco while doing a beer run and all I could do is shake my head
at him. What a shame"

Not a problem. Since about the mid-nineties all high compression engines have knock sensors and multiple spark maps at least one for premium grade octane level and one for regular grade octane level. High compression cars will run fine on regular grade fuel. Sensitive drivers might notice a small drop in performance due to the less aggresive advance curve, especially low end torque, but most drivers can't tell the difference.


Quote:
Originally posted by tigeroscar1
Yesterday I was driving from Las Vegas to Albuquerque for a class. My 260E was running like a champ. I stopped to fill-up at a Chevon. About a half hour later the engine started to sound rough and the economy needle went into the red and the Tachometer rpms also went higher. Gas mileage went form about 24mpg to around 10-15mpg !! Just starting the car the economy is in the red.
Your engine appears to have developed a problem, but it's very unlikely it has anything to do with the fuel. Most markets have fuel blends that are regulated, and the difference between brands is very slight - usually just the additive package, but the base stock is the same.

The additive packages are not regulated, but there are tests such as gum and varnish formation and deposit buildup that each additive package must pass.

Duke
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-21-2003, 11:41 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Naperville, Illinois
Posts: 92
I am an engineer in the refining industry. Here's the deal on gasoline. All gasoline purchased from a major supplier is created the same. Gasolines are blended to an ASTM standard and are subject to QAQC review by IDOT and EPA (for different reasons obviously). What MAY differ from brand to brand is the after-manufacture additive that is added to the fuel AND the cleanliness of the fuel. These additive "packages" usually contain some form of detergent, but in reality, are all roughly similar and equal in performance. Some of us believe that all the rhetoric about gasoline additives is more marketing hype than reality, but that is a subjective observation of mine.

To give you a feel for the impact of the additive package......the cost of adding an additive to gasoline is right at 2 to 5 cents per gallon, which means that very little additive goes into each gallon.

What complicates gasolines is that, according to regional environmental regulations, characteristics such as vapor pressure, octane, sulfur content, and other parameters ends up forcing the production of"designer cocktail" gasolines. If you live or purchase gasoline in an "ozone non-attainment area (i.e. large citiies), then most areas are required to add an oxygenate to their blend. The coastal areas of the country typically select MTBE as their oxygenate, while the "corn belt" states selected Ethanol (which is produced from corn).

There are two things outside the control of the gasoline manufacturer, that can result in problems. The first (and least likely) is the use of "old" gasoline. Gasoline reacts with air, forming compounds that are not burned cleanly in today's engines. So, you should buy gasoline from a dealer who does a high volume business. With high volume, he is constantly replenishing his stock with fresh product. "Old" gas used to be an issue when there were so many mom and pop gas stations all over America. Gasoline might remain in their tanks for months before being sold. Environmental regulations are cost prohibitive; which is why most of the smaller stations are being driven out of business. So, old gas from a station is becoming less of a problem. Another source of old gas is gasoine that you have stored for your lawn mower or other home engines.

The biggest culprit is, as one poster noted: WATER. All storage tanks will collect water, if the product does NOT contain Ethanol. If Ethanol is used as the regional oxygenate, free water in underground storage tanks is less of an issue, since Ethanol is hydroscopic.......meaning that Ethanol absorbs water that it comes in contact with. A real issue with Ethanol is that it will absorb only so much water. When the water content reaches the saturation point for the ethanonl/gasoline mixture, a phenominon called "phase separation" can occur and all the water will suddenly separate from the solution. When you hear the horror stories of a car filling up with fresh gas only to stall immediately.......the culprit is usually phase separation related.

If you purchase gasoline from a high volume dealer, the issues listed above should not be an issue.

Sorry for the long post.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-21-2003, 01:38 PM
KNanthrup's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally posted by earossi
I am an engineer in the refining industry. Here's the deal on gasoline. All gasoline purchased from a major supplier is created the same. Gasolines are blended to an ASTM standard and are subject to QAQC review by IDOT and EPA (for different reasons obviously). What MAY differ from brand to brand is the after-manufacture additive that is added to the fuel AND the cleanliness of the fuel. These additive "packages" usually contain some form of detergent, but in reality, are all roughly similar and equal in performance. Some of us believe that all the rhetoric about gasoline additives is more marketing hype than reality, but that is a subjective observation of mine.

To give you a feel for the impact of the additive package......the cost of adding an additive to gasoline is right at 2 to 5 cents per gallon, which means that very little additive goes into each gallon.

What complicates gasolines is that, according to regional environmental regulations, characteristics such as vapor pressure, octane, sulfur content, and other parameters ends up forcing the production of"designer cocktail" gasolines. If you live or purchase gasoline in an "ozone non-attainment area (i.e. large citiies), then most areas are required to add an oxygenate to their blend. The coastal areas of the country typically select MTBE as their oxygenate, while the "corn belt" states selected Ethanol (which is produced from corn).

There are two things outside the control of the gasoline manufacturer, that can result in problems. The first (and least likely) is the use of "old" gasoline. Gasoline reacts with air, forming compounds that are not burned cleanly in today's engines. So, you should buy gasoline from a dealer who does a high volume business. With high volume, he is constantly replenishing his stock with fresh product. "Old" gas used to be an issue when there were so many mom and pop gas stations all over America. Gasoline might remain in their tanks for months before being sold. Environmental regulations are cost prohibitive; which is why most of the smaller stations are being driven out of business. So, old gas from a station is becoming less of a problem. Another source of old gas is gasoine that you have stored for your lawn mower or other home engines.

The biggest culprit is, as one poster noted: WATER. All storage tanks will collect water, if the product does NOT contain Ethanol. If Ethanol is used as the regional oxygenate, free water in underground storage tanks is less of an issue, since Ethanol is hydroscopic.......meaning that Ethanol absorbs water that it comes in contact with. A real issue with Ethanol is that it will absorb only so much water. When the water content reaches the saturation point for the ethanonl/gasoline mixture, a phenominon called "phase separation" can occur and all the water will suddenly separate from the solution. When you hear the horror stories of a car filling up with fresh gas only to stall immediately.......the culprit is usually phase separation related.

If you purchase gasoline from a high volume dealer, the issues listed above should not be an issue.

Sorry for the long post.
Wow, very informative. Thanks

__________________
-Kevin
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page