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  #1  
Old 12-11-2003, 12:45 PM
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Location: Saginaw,Mi
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400e

I have a '92 400E with 72K miles. I'm told the PS pump is leaking and needs a seal kit. I'm also told this is a TEN hour labor job by the MB dealer. Is this accurate? I'm also told replacing the pump with a rebuilt isn't much less of a job on the labor end. What is advised, resealing with the kit or replacing? Does this actually take ten hrs? Also front pads and rotors were changed 20K miles ago. I'm told I need BOTH replaced again. Don't they usually skin the rotors for a second set of pads before replacing? I think I'm being taken advantage of by this dealer.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2003, 01:01 PM
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You are being had

You can buy a rebuilt PS pump at fastlane (top of page) for about $320

You should get 2-3 sets of pads out of a rotor, unless you had some horribly wrong pads or the rotors are warped. Anyway, I just had the front pads and rotors on mine. Labor was $160 and I bought the parts here....
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2003, 03:33 PM
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Ten Hours = Highway robbery

The job should take 2 hours, I believe. Ten hours is almost an evaporator replacement.

The PO on my car has a receipt for a PS rebuild. The kit (from memory now) was less than $100, and the labor was 2 or 3 hours. Less than $300 total, I believe.

Take it to an independent!

Troy
1995 E420 72k
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  #4  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:53 PM
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I go to a very exeperienced (40yrs+) mbz mechanic and he told me that the power steering pumps just leak. I had mine replaced about 1.5yrs ago but was probably not necessary (a different less turst worth mechanic). I once went to the local stealership and they told me that I need a new pump because my current one was starting to leak. This was when I asked my regular mechanic and he told me about the common leaking issue. He told me to just keep topping off.
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2003, 10:02 PM
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I don't have anything original to add; just my agreement with what is said above. I've had mine resealed at least twice that I recall. It's just a normal part of MB ownership to reseal the pump when it starts to leak, every 30-50 k miles. As above, find a good, experienced independent MB mechanic who is more interested in cultivating an ongoing relationship with you and thus will not soak you like the dealerships seem to do.
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2003, 11:08 PM
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I think it's six hours - which of course is the average of 2 and 10, and the kit is way less than $100, more like $10 or $15. If we keep speculating eventually someone will come along that will know.
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2003, 09:08 AM
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I was charged for 2 hours last time mine was resealed.
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2003, 11:58 AM
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Just on the brakes;

20k is not very long, but largely depends upon driving style and driving conditions. Here in the 'salt belt', I generally do not get pads to outlast rotors. Road grit=rotor gouging.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2003, 12:18 PM
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re: 400E PS pump and brakes

Thanks for all the replies, I'm negotiating with the dealership service rep, who tells me my pump is out of the car and on the bench. Told him my research indicated this is not a ten hr job to R&R the PS pump ( even another dealership quoted me 5 hrs, and Alldata says 6.4 with the reseal. ) He says "I can work with you on the labor". I'm not trying to nit pick but there is a difference between customer service and customer rip-off.
Next thing he tells me is my front brakes which were changed with new pads and rotors 19,243 miles ago definitely need BOTH new pads and rotors. Again I say " conventional thinking seems to be I should get more than one pad change out of a set of rotors " . His reply is "you Have Kleen Wheel disks and they cause premature brake wear because they overheat the brakes". This car is driven by my school teacher wife to and from school less than 6 miles one way. The brakes on this car would never overheat even if she dragged them all the way there and back (which she doesn't ride the brake). Anybody care to weigh in on the Kleen Wheel issue? I think I will have a chat with the general manager of this dealership and if not supported , I will vote with my feet and not return to Grand Blanc Motorcars.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2003, 12:36 PM
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I do not think the kleen wheels thing is significant. Even if they did prevent cooling to any extent, this would only matter at limits, like long descents.

The 6 mile commute could be significant.
How many years did it take to get 20k miles?
Is that 6 urban miles? Urban miles are brutal.

In your climate, road grit and corrosion are rotor factors.
In other words, miles are not everything...

And hey, I have known some pretty wild-driving school teachers...
That V8 could bring out a side of her you are not familiar with.
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2003, 12:39 PM
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Cool

Anybody care to weigh in on the Kleen Wheel issue?
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If you do a search on Kleen Wheels you will find some who think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and you will find some who think that Kleen Wheels are the worst thing you can do to your MB. My thinking is why spend the money for Kleen Wheels when just a little bit of elbow grease will keep the wheels looking like new. No Kleen Wheels, no speculation as to overheating the rotors, etc. No problems.
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2003, 12:51 PM
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The 400E has oversize brakes which are even less likely to overheat. I just cannot imagine a problem in normal usage.
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2003, 01:00 PM
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In my expereience, the pumps that most often leak are the ones that have had ATF added to them, haven't had the fluid and/or PS filters changed. I believe it was suggested that the additives in ATF were hostile to PS pump seals.

Don't use ATF in PS pumps.

There was quite a bit of discussion about not using ATF in PS pumps about a year ago on this forum. Try searching under Larry Bible and Power Steering Pumps.

A lot of dealerships automatically try to replace rotors with change of pads. This was there is next to zero reason for you to bring it back for any brake related issues.

Mercedes, as I recall, doesn't recommend turning (shaving) rotors. I was once told it was an "American" kind of thing. Whether or not, ask your service advisor whether they are under sized or not. Shops like this often will not turn your rotors as well.

Here in California, disks have to be measured prior to turning them. If the thickness after turning makes them undersized, shops will not turn them.

I have had good luck with turning rotors, cross drilled and non-cross drilled.

I also use PBR Deluxe pads to help eliminate the brake dust problem. I still get a little, but no where near the amount of dust with OEM pads.

Regarding Kleen Wheels, this has been discussed many times on this forum. Do a search. There are some that will never run them while others who swear by them. With a competition background, I just can't reduce the amount of air that normally circulates through the wheels to cool the pads and rotors.

Haasman
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2003, 02:01 PM
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thanks again for the feedback, I did search both to PS issue and the Kleen Wheels issue before I posted. the jury is still out on Kleen Wheels. Absolutely NO for racing but for most folks daily driving the overheating the brakes issue is bunkum.(no my wife is not secretly autocrossing or sedan racing ) This car is a daily driver for a little old schoolmarm in an urban environment who puts on less than 10K per year. That's why it only has 72K on it total. KWs have been on this car for six years and only the last set of pads and rotors had poor longevity. Yes, I know it is a heavy car and the pads are soft to begin with but 19K on, a new set of rotors is not to be expected. Yes I live in road salt country but none of the rest of my 6 vehicles are showing this kind of wear. KW disks are also on my Audi A6 Avant and pads and disks are good there for 45-50 K.
Service mgr has yet to return my call as to current thickness of front disks on the 400E. I had a Range Rover Classic for 8 years (talk about heavy with soft pads) and still got 50-60K out of pads, rotors on that are never turned and always replaced (but not after 19K). Speaking of that, the ZF power steering pump on that vehicle specifically requires ATF (so much for the notion that ATF eats Ps seals).Thanks again for all who took the trouble to reply.
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2003, 04:46 PM
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I currently have a 92 190E2.6 with 145,000 miles. It has had the Kleen wheels on for the past 120,000 miles. The car is drivin 80% city and I usually get 20,000 to 25,000 from the front OEM pads and about 60,000 from the front rotors.

Rod
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