Engine Swap Thread 1962 Fintail 220Sb gets a motor swap!

[Stretch]

I'm glad to see everything is back on the road again

[daidnik]

This brings up an important point. The oil passage drillings may be different on that front cam tower for the M130 motor from your old M180 motor.

Did you use the towers from the old motor?

The oil galley side on the block is on the left (driver's sd), while the tensioner is on the right. I think that oil has get over to the tensioner via the front cam tower; comming in one side, going up to the rocker arm lube tube and also down the other side of the cam tower and back down into the cyl head and to the chain tensioner.

It is important that the cam tower you used has the drilled passage going down the right 'leg' of the cam tower to pump that tensioner up.

Another thing I recall you saying is that you used the cam from the M180 motor. The original cam had drillings in the cam for the lube of the rocker arms. This was later superceeded to the design with the long 'lube tube' with the holes in it attached to the steel brackets on the top of the cyl head. The later style cam had no oil drillings in it.

I bring this last matter up as it could have an effect on the oil pressure to the tensioner if you have BOTH the 'lube tube' and the cam with the oil drillings in it. This would reduce the oil pressure to the tensioner somewhat as these were not supposed to be used together, i.e. you either used the later 'lube tube' with the solid cam, or the older system without the lube tube.

Unfortunately, I don't think the older system would be compatible with the later oil pressure driven chain tensioner.

Another interesting thing I found out is that the ball pins are NLA at MB. They'll sell you the whole ball pin/seat assy for $45 ea, but not longer sell you the ball pins that were about $7 ea. Dismantlers will certainly have them.

[mercmad6.3]

I was working on a M180 last with a m130 head...no it doesn't work well at all. The engine rattles like you wouldn't believe .

[daidnik]

But I seem to recall him mentioning that he had observed concavity or excessive wear on the cam on the used M130 motor and substituted the cam off the M180.

I had a W111 like his where I had done both the cam update to the solid cam as well as a transplant of an M130.923 into that car.

I'm pretty sure that early front cam tower used on the M180 doesn't have that drilling to carry oil down to the hole on the top of the M130 & all later style heads that goes to the oil pressure driven chain tensioner.

[mercmad6.3]

What he could do is remove the plugs,cam cover and crank the engine over the starter and observe the cam bearings. If oil is coming from the cam bearings and spray rail it should work OK ,but if lots of play is present in the cam tower bearing surfaces,they nee Just remove the rocker arms ,then see if the cam moves up and down,Any excess movement that can be felt indicates wear that causes rattles.
The hollow cams on the old M180 received oil via the cam towers and this did the same job as the later solid cams Spray rail ,lubing the rockers and ball studs. The big disadvantage in using the old cam is that the grind is a bit mild,especially those used on a M180 II

[daidnik]

That's the only way he's going to be getting oil to the tensioner I think.

I don't think the old M180 setup had this feature in the front cam tower to supply oil pressure to the tensioner.

That was the point I was trying to convey.

[mercmad6.3]

yes,you are right there,the cam bearings get the oil first before the rest ,same as on the V8 engines . The m180 doesn't have a oil pressure type chain tensioner,it uses oil from a bath beside the chain .
Once he checks his cam bearing clearances he should be OK.

[PaulC]

Can the 3.5 V8 used in the later w111 280SE coupes/convertibles be readily swapped into a finback?

[mercmad6.3]

yes,using the alloy mount arms from a W108 (3.5,4.5) it bolts in . The W111 tunnel at the rear above the flex disc is too low so it needs to be cut and abox welded in place to clear the disc and to mount the shifter. But,you can also connect the column shift of a W111 to the later trans without much drama.
The speedo cable needs an adaptor to mate with the trans . The Handbrake cable needs moving to the left to clear the manifolds but thats about all.
Fit later Larger brakes as fitted to the W108 and W109 and use a W108 back end to gear the car up and use the four wheel disc brakes.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Hello Peaches,

I am using the head and bottom end from the M130 including the cam towers. I used the cam from the M180. The pivot ball on the exhaust cylinder number 6 was worn and so was the rocker. Here is a picture.



This is the wear on the rocker. I hope my picture shows the difference.



Finally, I adjusted the intake to .003 and the exhaust at .006 and the engine sounds correct now! I adjusted them in firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4 with the cam lobe at a 45 degree angle to the adjusting nut as specified in the workshop manual.

Many thanks for your wisdom and experience!!

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Today I installed 12 new rocker arms and 12 new pivot ball assemblies. I did the valve adjustment at .004 intake and .008 exhaust. It has a slight tick-tick, so I am going to adjust them again tomorrow when the engine is cold to the .003 and .007 specification.

[joshhol]

This is epic. I salute your perseverance. Thanks for keeping another one of these on the road.

[Flossekapitein]

Hello Jeffrey, (and other Heckflosse-fans)

Sorry that my English is not perfect but I think you will understand what I mean.
I am Dutch and have specially signed in on this American forum because of this topic of change the M180 engine for a M130 engine in your Emerald Bullet.
This topic is already some years old so I hope you still are active here.
I also have a W111, a 230S, with a M180 engine and manual 4 speed transmission. In a few weeks I get a M130 engine with an automatic trans. Like you did, I want to do as simple as possible this swap. And same as you, I want to buy or find the parts I need before I try to change the engine.
In my car is engine M180.954 manual trans and the new engine is a M130.923 automatic trans.
You wrote: David also provided the flywheel and bolts that are rare as cat poop on Mars (The Classic Center doesn't even have these items).
Can you tell me what flywheel and bolts you have used? And if possible the numbers and some pictures?

Thanks from the Netherlands :-) , Marcel

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Hello Marcel,

Welcome! You came to the right place. You will easily find new friends here.

The Emerald Bullet was a successful project. It spends too much time sleeping in storage since my new job.

I have photos of the flywheel somewhere. I don't believe I wrote down the part numbers of stretch bolts or the flywheel, but maybe?

You probably have a better chance of finding the flywheel in Europe. Maybe only as rare as cat poop on the moon instead of Mars.

[Stretch]

Hey Marcel,

A quick look on everythingbenz.com and searching through for a M130 engine fitted to a W108 came up with two numbers

Каталог MERCEDES

According to google 1089900419 looks like it is the one you need as it is described as clutch flywheel bolt. You are best off going to your local friendly dealer to check this though.

If you live in the area of a Wensink Mercedes dealer you might be close enough to get to one of their specialised oldtimer branches where they are probably going to be more willing to help you.

If not I guess Marcel Kappen is probably going to be a good jumping off point.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any local knowledge - though I guess you could teach me a thing or to as it sounds like you're a local!