The Sleeper Part Deux - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #16 01-28-2013, 09:02 AM

I was thinking the same about all W123 prop shafts being the same until I saw this =>

I've asked around and apparently this two UJ design was not only used on the long wheel base W123s but also on some of the early W123 sedans and coupes.

I've been told there's a list in the FSM somewhere - I'm still looking for it!

As for the validity of the data posted by LutzTD I guess it is pretty good - as he's a top chap! But I have no way of verifying any of it.

I can say the same about 200T over on BW (the other link I posted) he seems to know his onions too! I can verify the measurement I made for the front length of my prop shaft (on the BW thread) that's off of a W123.130 chassis...

t walgamuth · #17 01-28-2013, 11:33 AM

The two bearing design in a normal sedan would allow smaller diameter ds tube to be used. I would be surprised though if any standard wheelbase cars were built with that feature though.

DeliveryValve · #18 01-28-2013, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Those tables should become a permanent reference here. I suggest you contact Roy about that.

I don't think the table is correct. The sedan/wagon driveshafts vs coupe driveshafts have different placement of the center bearing. Also the total length of the coupe driveshaft is shorter.

.

greazzer · #19 01-28-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliveryValve

I don't think the table is correct. The sedan/wagon driveshafts vs coupe driveshafts have different placement of the center bearing. Also the total length of the coupe driveshaft is shorter.

.

EXCLUDING COUPES, Do you think that the center bearing point is common or constant for all sedans and their various flavors of drive trains ?? I would probably cry if the DS I am geting made would not fit. I am of the understadning that the smaller front piece is the only different sized or variable out there. Right now, I am aware of 3 different sizes: 300D with auto trans, 300D with manual trans, and the 240D (I only got the auto DS as an example). Assuming this is correct, then that's really the end of the possibilities.

DeliveryValve · #20 01-28-2013, 05:03 PM

I am pretty confident that the standard setup single center bearing driveshaft of the sedans and wagons have the same center bearing placements. So the rear shafts are the same length.

.

greazzer · #21 01-28-2013, 05:18 PM

Wew ... I hope to get it shipped tomorrow or next day at the latest. We'll see.

t walgamuth · #22 01-28-2013, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliveryValve

I am pretty confident that the standard setup single center bearing driveshaft of the sedans and wagons have the same center bearing placements. So the rear shafts are the same length.

.

I don't know without measuring my coupe out back but for some reason I always thought the distance from the center bearing to the tranny was the same on the coupe and the rear shaft is shorter.

Stretch · #23 01-30-2013, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

The two bearing design in a normal sedan would allow smaller diameter ds tube to be used. I would be surprised though if any standard wheelbase cars were built with that feature though.

(Sorry for the late reply - computer trouble this week)

I too was surprised to see the Russian EPC pictures showing the two UJ prop shaft design (look back at the picture and notice the chassis designation at the top).

I've been informed that it was a very early "feature" of the W123...

Do you know what the W114/W115 set up is like?

(We need someone like you with lots of cars to tell us this kind of stuff!)

Stretch · #24 01-30-2013, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

EXCLUDING COUPES, Do you think that the center bearing point is common or constant for all sedans and their various flavors of drive trains ?? I would probably cry if the DS I am geting made would not fit. I am of the understadning that the smaller front piece is the only different sized or variable out there. Right now, I am aware of 3 different sizes: 300D with auto trans, 300D with manual trans, and the 240D (I only got the auto DS as an example). Assuming this is correct, then that's really the end of the possibilities.

I get the impression that all of the diesel W123s be it a wagon, sedan or coupe had the larger diameter rear section and the "centre" bearing at the same distance from the differential.

I think that only the front prop shaft sections were changed to suit the transmissions and engine positions.

If you look back at 200T's BW thread you can see a picture of a gasser prop shaft that not only has a different diameter but also the centre bearing in a different position too. Yet more proof that the bear chested manliness of a diesel requires bigger beefier bits!

t walgamuth · #25 01-30-2013, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

(Sorry for the late reply - computer trouble this week)

I too was surprised to see the Russian EPC pictures showing the two UJ prop shaft design (look back at the picture and notice the chassis designation at the top).

I've been informed that it was a very early "feature" of the W123...

Do you know what the W114/W115 set up is like?

(We need someone like you with lots of cars to tell us this kind of stuff!)

I owned a 72 220D, a 74 240D and a 76 300D. All had one bearing in the driveshaft. All were four door sedans.

Shortsguy1 · #26 01-30-2013, 08:41 AM

My 68 222D has a 2 piece prop shaft. BUT, I have a reference manual called "Mercedes Benz 220/8 1968-1972 Owners Workshop Manual" which clearly says that both 2 piece and 3 piece shafts were available in these cars. It unfortunately doesn't say what determined this design choice. If you trust the diagram in this book showing these two options, both are for the same length of car. In the 2 piece, the first one is small diameter and the second is larger. In the 3 piece, all three pieces are small diameter. Not sure if any of this is relevant, but I wanted to share.

Stretch · #27 01-30-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

My 68 222D has a 2 piece prop shaft. BUT, I have a reference manual called "Mercedes Benz 220/8 1968-1972 Owners Workshop Manual" which clearly says that both 2 piece and 3 piece shafts were available in these cars. It unfortunately doesn't say what determined this design choice. If you trust the diagram in this book showing these two options, both are for the same length of car. In the 2 piece, the first one is small diameter and the second is larger. In the 3 piece, all three pieces are small diameter. Not sure if any of this is relevant, but I wanted to share.

Well thanks for sharing anyway! Your workshop manual doesn't by any chance have a list of the vehicles / chassis numbers showing which vehicles had the 3 piece prop shaft? Probably not! And I guess it isn't your favourite bed time reading...

Stretch · #28 01-30-2013, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I owned a 72 220D, a 74 240D and a 76 300D. All had one bearing in the driveshaft. All were four door sedans.

Well that covers the diesels then...

Shortsguy1 · #29 01-30-2013, 01:22 PM

Stretch's last comment was prophetic. I went into EPC and it turns out that the 3 piece propeller shaft is used for gasser 123s and gasser 115s. I did not check every possible iteration, but a 220 w115 (gas) has a 3 piece and a 230 w123 (gas, I picked it at random, no idea if it ever sold in the US) also has a 3 piece. The picture that Stretch included above is misleading slightly. It is in the EPC, but grayed out for all diesel model 123s. It appears that diesel 123s (240D, 300D, 300D turbo, 300CD turbo are the ones I checked) only came with a 2-piece prop shaft. If you need pictures of any of these options, let me know and I can cut and paste them from EPC.

Stretch · #30 01-30-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

Stretch's last comment was prophetic. I went into EPC and it turns out that the 3 piece propeller shaft is used for gasser 123s and gasser 115s. I did not check every possible iteration, but a 220 w115 (gas) has a 3 piece and a 230 w123 (gas, I picked it at random, no idea if it ever sold in the US) also has a 3 piece. The picture that Stretch included above is misleading slightly. It is in the EPC, but grayed out for all diesel model 123s. It appears that diesel 123s (240D, 300D, 300D turbo, 300CD turbo are the ones I checked) only came with a 2-piece prop shaft. If you need pictures of any of these options, let me know and I can cut and paste them from EPC.

Great stuff! I'm stuck using the Russian EPC ('cos I don't want to pay for EPC - Europeans have to...) which is always a danger.

I've heard that it is possible to backwards search a part number in "real" EPC to see which cars it is fitted to - would that be possible with the part number for a 3 part prop shaft?