OM617 swap into Ford Ranger, what would it take? - Page 16 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #**226** 03-26-2017, 02:28 PM

looks like an al alloy:Aluminum and Aluminum Alloys

Aluminum alloys are designated as either wrought or cast. Wrought aluminum alloys are classified by the major alloying element
◾1000 series pure aluminum (1050, 1060, 1199)
◾2000 series aluminum copper alloys (2014. 2024, 2219)
◾3000 series aluminum ma managese alloys (3003, 3004, 3102)
◾4000 series aluminum silicon alloys (4041)
◾5000 series aluminum magnesium alloys (5005, 5052, 5083, 5086, 5154, 5356, 5154, 5356, 5454)
◾6000 series aluminum magnesium and silicon alloys (6060, 6061, 6063, 6066, 6070, 6082, 6105, 6162)
◾7000 series aluminum zinc alloys (7005, 7022, 7068, 7072, 7075, 7079, 7116, 7129, 7178)
◾8000 series aluminum lithium alloys

Cast aluminum alloys are classified similarly to wrought alloys, however, the 2nd and 3rd digit signify the percentage of aluminum

ROLLGUY · #**227** 03-26-2017, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

He says it is 6061. What is that?

I believe he is referring to the bell housing adapter plate.

t walgamuth · #**228** 03-26-2017, 02:48 PM

Well, could be.

ROLLGUY · #**229** 03-26-2017, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I believe he is referring to the bell housing adapter plate.

Let me rephrase that: I HOPE he is referring to the bell housing adapter plate. If all my senses are not failing me, we will find out that the flywheel adapter is in fact steel, and not aluminum. If my senses have failed me, an aluminum flywheel adapter is a recipe for disaster (what others have said, but not the same words).

OM617YOTA · #**230** 03-26-2017, 06:05 PM

Depends on how the flywheel adapter is implemented. The flywheel adapter on my swap, kit from 4x4labs, is aluminum. That is NOT AT ALL how I would have done it, but that was the company's choice and it appears to be holding up just fine thus far. I had it out a few thousand miles ago but it was fine then as well.

97 SL320 · #**231** 03-26-2017, 07:44 PM

The only advantage to using aluminum for a FW spacer is ease of machining. And, .. in the case the 4x4 labs unit, they can make it out of the otherwise scrap material found in the center of the bell housing spacer plate. They can also make the FW spacer first then go on to making the bell housing spacer without having to set material back up.

I don't see any threads in the Ford side of the adapter, they should have been put in when it was on the mill. Don't try to make these threads by hand, helicoil taps are generally plug taps and are not easy to start by hand if you want a straight thread. Set it up in a mill or drill press to at least get things started.

Tilted holes put bolts in bending rather than just tension and can lead to bolt failure.

While we are on the helicoil subject. Be sure to place the end of insert 1 to 1 1/2 threads below the surface on the tension side ( the side towards the bolt head ) otherwise you run the risk of lifting the insert or even having the aluminum start to crack. I've seen non helicoil threads in aluminum crack in a spiral to where you end up with an aluminum spring.

t walgamuth · #**232** 03-26-2017, 07:48 PM

The flywheel is within 5" of your calf or foot so if the adapter fails the flywheel will become a flying buzz saw and it'll cut until it hits something solid enough to stop it.

I am me · #**233** 03-26-2017, 07:49 PM

The flywheel adapter was made out of a scrap of 6061 aluminum that was laying around the shop. I to am worried about it not being strong enough but I'm working on setting up a stress analysis in Autodesk inventor and I'll talk to my dynamics and strength of materials teachers about doing the calculations by hand in order to check myself. If it isn't strong enough I'll make a new one (this one was free), but thinking about it it really should be fine; there is no way the 6 M10x1.00 bolts will pull out and the clutch will slip before it shears the bolts or their holes deform. 6061 is actually pretty strong though so the only thing I'm worried about is it fatigue cracking (7075 really would be better in this application) but the the cycle life is also calculatable.The rest of the adapter will be 6061 and definitely is will be strong enough.

I am me · #**234** 03-26-2017, 07:55 PM

That adapter is also 7/8 thick and the bolts have a 1/2 to bite into. You're right 97 SL320, the Ford bolt holes aren't tapped yet. It's going back in the mill when I get a tap. I was dumb and forgot I had only put in easy numbers in for the Merc holes when I drew it so I'd know what it looked like and never put in the real values, and so it's got to go back in the machine anyway

I thought that my truck had a removable front clip like a Bronco but nope! It's all welded together. I guess I'll just drill out all the spot welds on the radiator support instead. I've got a few 1/2" HSS spot drills but not an actual spot-weld bit, don't see why it wouldn't work though so I'll give it a try

I am me · #**235** 03-26-2017, 11:21 PM

Not totally sure how to interpret what inventor spits out yet (first time trying that feature) but it is giving me a factor of safety of 15 when loaded with a moment greater then my engine can produce. I still have to finish simulating it under vibration and pulling a bolt free but from what I've got so far it looks like the flywheel would fail before the adapter

97 SL320 · #**236** 03-27-2017, 08:25 PM

A few things to think about.

The MB crank flange has a zillion bolts and the Ford FW 6 on a much smaller pattern.

I'm not so worried about a failure in the short term, I'm looking tens of thousands of miles down the road after the aluminum starts to deform on the faces. The loading is cyclical and this back and forth motion will cause fretting. Tightly pinning the Ford FW to the adapter and / or some sort of locktite product on the faces would reduce this.

The less cylinders an engine has the more the crankshaft winds and unwinds relative to the flywheel. This places high loads on the FW to crank interface. Extra points for it being a diesel. Take a look at any sort of industrial motor coupling data sheet and it will derate for fewer cylinders.

Why do you want to remove the core support?

I use Inventor at work but not loading program. You need to constrain the outer edge of the FW and crank flange then apply torsion.

I am me · #**237** 04-09-2017, 09:23 PM

I'm still working on the stress analysis but so far it doesn't look like it'll fail anyone soon even if it vibrates at 10khz so should be good. I've got the plastic for both parts of the adapter and the metal for the big piece of the adapter. Hopefully have the plastic adapter done next weekend.

I removed the radiator support so it'll be easier to put the engine in. Tried fitting the engine in and iIt should fit if I put the radiator where the AC condenser use to be and put the oil cooler between the frame where the bumper should be. I've got to completely remove the box that the AC evaporator was in ao that I have room for the exhaust. Hopefully I'll be able to keep heat. The motor mounts on the frame and the engine almost line up which'll be very helpful.

t walgamuth · #**238** 04-09-2017, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am me

I'm still working on the stress analysis but so far it doesn't look like it'll fail anyone soon even if it vibrates at 10khz so should be good. I've got the plastic for both parts of the adapter and the metal for the big piece of the adapter. Hopefully have the plastic adapter done next weekend.

I removed the radiator support so it'll be easier to put the engine in. Tried fitting the engine in and iIt should fit if I put the radiator where the AC condenser use to be and put the oil cooler between the frame where the bumper should be. I've got to completely remove the box that the AC evaporator was in ao that I have room for the exhaust. Hopefully I'll be able to keep heat. The motor mounts on the frame and the engine almost line up which'll be very helpful.

7/8" thick makes it sound much better.

Simpler=Better · #**239** 04-10-2017, 11:42 AM

Don't use an aluminum flywheel adapter for anything but mocking up parts. It will fail, and it will be ugly.

If you're hell bent on using the aluminium, go with studs instead of threaded holes.

ROLLGUY · #**240** 04-10-2017, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better

Don't use an aluminum flywheel adapter for anything but mocking up parts. It will fail, and it will be ugly.

If you're hell bent on using the aluminium, go with studs instead of threaded holes.

That was others opinion, as well as mine. I would not have the guts (or any other body parts) to use aluminum for a part like that on my car.