Do Atheists murder? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mistress · #16 12-11-2007, 02:38 PM

franklin has been busy posting since 06.

LUVMBDiesels · #17 12-11-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee8go

There are a lot of social mores that have their basis in religious doctrine, but they are no less valid for atheists than believers. Society needs rules in order to function satisfactorily. I don't believe your example that "murder" requires adherence to religious beliefs in order to have validity.

I'm sure our resident legal scholars can weigh in on this issue with some food for thought.

You notice I never said that atheists are not moral people. They can be and they can feel guilt and so commit murder instead of removing a person that they feel deserves it. On the other hand, many religious figures have done the same people removal in the past and present.

What I am saying is that if you have no morality and therefore no reference to society, you are not commiting murder -- doesn't make it right...

Mistress · #18 12-11-2007, 02:56 PM

religious wars....

Dee8go · #19 12-11-2007, 03:08 PM

I don't know. Murder, killing, who cares what you call it. If you're the object of that action, you're still dead, either way . . . .

I don't think "guilt" necessarily requires one to have any particular belief in a god, God, or gods, goddesses, etc. to be felt. It could be the result of peer pressure, could it not? Some would say that it is ALWAYS the result of peer pressure only it is usually couched in religious terms.

Matt L · #20 12-11-2007, 03:21 PM

Religious wars are no more or less moral than other types of cleansing actions. There is essentially no difference between an inquisition and Stalin's actions.

I also take exception to the statement that atheism is a religion. It doesn't involve living my life according to a set of beliefs. A set of morals, sure, but that's an orthogonal concept.

John Doe · #21 12-11-2007, 03:24 PM

Well, fart in the direction of whoever said it or throw down a gauntlet or something

Dee8go · #22 12-11-2007, 03:27 PM

I think "Hate Crimes" are really detestable. If you're going to commit a crime against me, I would prefer that you at least have the decency to at least LIKE me.

. . . . . I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I just felt compelled to say it. I guess maybe this all just sounds like semantics to me.

Matt L · #23 12-11-2007, 03:32 PM

I think "hate crimes" are misnamed, and that is the source of the problem. Were they called "bigoted crimes," perhaps it would make more sense.

In the larger sense (like Stalin or Milosevic), they are simply called "war crimes." But it's the same thing.

jlomon · #24 12-11-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAVBMW

So you're saying that if I don't feel guilt or remorse over it, it's not murder? 'Cause that would sure be handy...

"You see judge, I really felt he had it coming, and feel no remorse or regret what-so-ever, so let's just forget this whole murder thing, mmmnn-K? Thanks."

I thought that murder was what we called intentionally killing another, with certain variances for manslaughter factored in also?

MV

Agreed. The difference between "murder" and "killing" is the intent of the person carrying out the action. It has nothing to do with a sense of guilt. I am certain there are plenty of people who have caused accidental death who feel tremendous guilt over having taken a life. That doesn't make them murderers.

Dee8go · #25 12-11-2007, 03:45 PM

Motive seems relevatnt only inasmuch as it refers to "intentional" or "accidental" commission of a crime as far as I can tell. What say YOU?

Mistress · #26 12-11-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt L

I think "hate crimes" are misnamed, and that is the source of the problem. Were they called "bigoted crimes," perhaps it would make more sense.

In the larger sense (like Stalin or Milosevic), they are simply called "war crimes." But it's the same thing.

Matt- I'm the last one to site semantics being the right-brainer that i am but it comes down to the "language." Most people understand what a "Hate crime" is and that involves someone who is a bigot and no one is using the term "biogot crime." According to the Random house dictionary- a bigot is "a person who is intolerant of any creed, belief or race that is not his or her own." Does that make sense?

Matt L · #27 12-11-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress

Matt- I'm the last one to site semantics being the right-brainer that i am but it comes down to the "language." Most people understand what a "Hate crime" is and that involves someone who is a bigot and no one is using the term "biogot crime." According to the Random house dictionary- a bigot is "a person who is intolerant of any creed, belief or race that is not his or her own." Does that make sense?

I would think that most people understand this. But why then, do I hear things like, "All murders are hate crimes." This clearly isn't so.

davidmash · #28 12-11-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

In a Atheist society you would not have laws like we do since they were written by Theist's.

So in order for you and I to agree not to kill each other I have to believe in your god? And to think all these years I just thought killing someone was jut wrong. Go figure. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

John Doe · #29 12-11-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

So in order for you and I to agree not to kill each other I have to believe in your god? And to think all these years I just thought killing someone was jut wrong. Go figure. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I could be mistaken but his post seemed to reference the orientations of the founders and their incorporation of their beliefs into the form of govt. which we have that has survived for a couple of hundred plus years. Don't bother thanking me for clearing that up.

aklim · #30 12-12-2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

You are incorrect, atheism is not a belief it is the lack of belief.

That could encompass agnosticism too.