From a financial point of view it is to some extent. It really amazes me how much money we disperse each year that is really not required. Or can with some effort be reduced in most cases. Especially if it is loading us down.

Otherwise you can land up with what I think of as pressure disease. Defined in modern society as stress of course. What I suspect does a lot of damage is stress that is present we are not aware of. Simplistically it is active in our subconcious mind when we are consiously unaware of it.

I have always suspected it inhibits the ability to think clearly and effects the emotional components in a lot in individuals. . The stressers will be downloaded in an unhealthy fashion is the usual human condition. Being unhappy or happy are both contaigious in a relationship. Hence one major factor of the high divorce rate.

As a couple we have been very happy in general over the years. Do not read into that last statement that there are not moments. I am just as capable of turning the wifes crank especially by ommission as the next guy.

But in our case they are not seriously signifigant. Part of this was simply enabled by learning how to buy and living well below our means. Financial dieting if you wish. Whatever fairly minor issues occur are not compounded by the financial load stress component in life.

This approach reduces the hidden and not so hidden stresses in life more than most would believe.This alone in my opinion makes the pursuit of financial dieting worthwhile for many.

Living paycheck to paycheck or dealing with uncertainty in the financial sphere is perhaps the way the most of us start out. Unless born with a silver spoon in our mouths. You want off that treadmill as fast as humanly possible is still the smart money. At least it is in my opinion.

To get off a treadmill it is up to you if there. We originally turned our situation around in one year of serious effort long long ago. If a simple guy like me could pull it off with a good wife it still is possible.

Believing that my way is not always the best way when viewing things. I try to project just my opinions and experiences in a given area. So my perceptions are just a personal viewpoint.

They say you are healthier by dieting. This can apply to our financial lives as well it seems . Financial overloading can be like having excess weight physically.

Managing buisinesses and some other things are more involved and in another catagory. Basically what I have suggested as one possible formula applies to our personal lives.

Easy credit has perhaps enabled our current society and many of it's ills.. The price paid by society for its existance is seldom discussed. Historically it was always recognized as a danger.

I have this large mixed use commercial building which I have mentioned from time to time here. When I obtained the present mortgage it appraised for a figure X which was in the vicinity of ten decent homes. it is excellently located right on the courthouse square at the intersection of main street and the other main drag through town, good for businesses, and right on the free shuttle which serves Purdue Campus.

The borrowed money financed the purchase and most of a complete remodel of the structure from top to bottom with the idea of selling it off and doing another building when maximum value was achieved. It is the second largish commercial building I have bought refurbished and or repurposed.

My intention was to keep doing it as I did well on the first one and hoped it was an infinitely repeatable pattern with real estate being the most stable investment possible. The intent was to refurbish over a ten year period and then sell and do it again until there was enough accumulated to not need to work and risk any more.

During the last 24 years I have been pretty aggressive with my investments, working a lot of hours, borrowing the maximum and "keeping all my money on the table" so to speak.

After about eight years I had pretty well maxxed out what the building can be and the possibility of borrowed money we experienced the financial bubble/collapse.

Although my vacancy rates are excellent with a great location and amenities people love, the cost of owning the building has crept up and up along with the adjustable mortgage and with a few key commercial vacancies making the payment has been a problem.

While making significant payments but short of the specified amount for the last two years, I have been negotiating with the bank to refinance and get the interest rate down or some debt forgiveness.

About a year ago I looked at converting the second floor which is currently very nice office space that is nearly 100% remodeled within the last ten years, and in fact got as far as making a loan application with the intent of maximizing the income for the building along with redoing the main mortgage.

So the bank ordered an appraisal nearly a year ago and the results came back with the building at a value which is about .66 X, (X being the original amount it appraised at when getting to the current mortgage).

So any additional borrowed money was out. Then the bank began making more aggressive comments verbally, trying to get me to walk away from the building and just turn it back over to them.

I spoke to a bankruptcy attorney about my options should they move to forclose and he encouraged me to dig in my heels, which was my inclination in any case. So with his encouragement I told the bank that i would definately go to the mat before walking away from every penny I ever earned which was invested in the building.

All the time this was going on I continued to make payments which would cover a mortgage with either a reduced interest rate of reduced loan amount.

So finally in the last few weeks it appears that the bank will move about 25% of the loan amount into a second note which in three years will be reduced by 50% with the balance forgiven, if I am current at that time. It is not as sweet as the attorney originally said he could get for me in court but almost immediately after I hired him he started backing away from what he thought he could get me there, so it looks reasonably attractive.

With any luck I should be able to make the payments in full from here on out.

My goal is to either pay it off at which time i would be 89 or simply pay the balance down until it can be sold and realize a profit of enough money to last me until I don't need money any more.

It goes to the loan committee this morning. It appears it will be approved.

My former business partner (before it all went to hell) had a phrase..."going over the hump".....at which point in life and or business you no longer need to worry about going broke. Someone would come up in conversation and he would say....."oh yeah, He is over the hump." So naturally I have been hoping to get over the hump myself. With the collapse of the real estate market a few years ago I felt pretty uncertain if i would ever make it over the hump.

When folks would ask how things were going with my building, I'd just say, "well, I'm not broke yet and in the past few years people who are a lot smarter and more experienced than me are". Then I smile.

So with this restructuring approved It appears that I will be able to make it over the hump.....it is even possible I am there already and just didn't realize it.

And next semester i will be teaching two sections of
Construction Drawings at Purdue so that along with managing the building should provide enough income to make ends meet as long as I don't get too crazy with spending.

I also will make the observation that the real estate investment/developing game is never certain. I personally know of at least four individuals who accumulated a lot of real estate but got too far upside down and ended up committing suicide. That is never necessary or the right thing to do. It only ends the struggle for the individual. it leaves their loved ones out in the cold.

In the real estate game as in life, perseverence is the most important thing.....and remember the old real estate rule....location, location, location.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

That makes for an interesting account. It's been tough all right but it's nice though that you seem to have gotten to a position where you'll be all right after all. Maybe you have made it "over the hump" after all...

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

The lovely Mrs. W is planning to retire after this year. We have been worrying about the insurance til she is 65 and how to pay for it. I'll be 65 this year so I can go to medicare. It turns out the school corp has a retirement incentive program she did not know about which will pay basically all of her premiums as soon as I turn 65 and then some so all is rosy now.

She also has accumulated 263 sick days she will be paid for in a lump. WE can put all that into her medical savings plan, tax deferred.

She is so funny. She loves to teach kids and does not like talking about money at all. She gets all flustered whenever talk turns to money. So I went along with her to talk to the person at the admin building today.

Then too her father's step father committed suicide back in the depression era over real estate misinvestments, so I guess she has a right to worry about it.

So thats all pretty good news.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

All the best Tom. Things will always change with time and hopefully more to your benifit. I expect inflation to give you a boost at some point. I still think more inflation is innevatable. Although I would like to meet anyone that can formulate an accurate picture of the future. Even short to medium term.

At my age I suspect there is really no one that truly can. Personally I see trends but not direction.

Some inflation is good when you owe a lot of money. Deflation sucks.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Hopefully, Europe will crash and burn HARD in the next 6 months. Dragging down equities, assets, and commodities -- it would be a beautiful negation of the worst work of the Fed over the past three years.

I am not really sure if you would really want to live through a real crash and the resultant recovery period if there was one. Looking it at somewhat as an abstract thing is okay but the reality might be more than most would or even could stomach.

The last crash was ultimatly solved because of many sounder factors existing than do today. There are no gaurantees that would be the case today. What may be thought as temporary could become tomorrows reality.

At best currently I see things being attempted to try for a softer landing than would have already occured perhaps.

People that went through the real depression generally expressed no desire for their children to endure the same. Yet historically history is doomed to repeat itself in some fashion as well.

I have often weighed the thought since 2008 that without the extensive social programs excess money is borrowed to support currently. What exactly would we have today?

Every attempt is being made worldwide to not rock the boat too much currently. How this will play out over time is really not certain . We are currently and have been for some time in unchartered waters.

Possibly the loss of confidence if certain events unknown currently unfolded may be enough to tip the boat over. I for one hope this is avoidable but never before have we operated financially at the extremes we are seeing for the last few years.

Today is far from a healthy overall financial enviroment but as I see it there is still enough confidence to keep it going. If that confidence is threatened it may result in a pretty bad reaction. Personally I just am not sure how long we can still go along on todays basis.

Will we become like Japan with zero interest for example? Even that did not restore what they had. Japan has been struggling for more than ten years now to even semi restore what they had.

If governments where not afraid to level with their populations might have helped. I have felt things are not really right for a few years now. One should ask themselves. Is a real recovery even just to todays standards a possibility if we slip further downward?

Or is there more likelyhood of an upward movement or downward movement currently. Thats if one were to try for an unbiased view. You are actually hoping for a downward movement. You may not really enjoy the ride as much as you think you may if we get it.

Personally I hope it is not in the cards. Yet if a house of cards has been constructed in many countries as I suspect it has it may be unavoidable. Even worse is if the house of cards is kind of universally currently shared by many developed countries. In that case if europe implodes financially we most likely will too.

Internet tough guy.


Barry has it right, you don't want a crash and burn....not really.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

That's a pretty amazing program given the cost of insurance nowadays. Our school typically did that in the past to give incentive for older expensive faculty to retire. They haven't done it in many years. A program like that would provide significant incentive to me.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

It was initiated in 1990 I believe, and is being phased out as people offered it are now retiring and it will not be available to the new hires. If the Mrs. had known about it she may have retired last year or the year before.

If I were not turning 65 it would only pay about half the cost.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Since there has been little to no Architectural work in recent years I allowed my Architect's license to expire a couple years ago. I have recently been given the opportunity to do some work where the license will be useful. I knew I'd need some continuing education hours and was a little intimidated by the task of accumulating them, but I went to the licensing office in Indy and inquired. They said if I renewed by the end of this year and did 24 CE course hours I was in (and paid money).

So I did some investigation and found several CE opportunities online. Last week I did a CE orgy and knocked them all out with no problem. It was fun because i found out I am still pretty good at taking tests, and most of the stuff was review of what I already knew well. I tested out of about a third of the courses (it was set up so that was an option), and I don't think any of them took a whole hour.

Oh and I did learn about some new products too.

I got an email Monday that my stuff was approved.

So I am a registered Architect again.

Woo hooooo!

And I am working on two small jobs and another bigger one looks to be in the near future awarded.

Its cutting into my hobby time, but doing my chosen work again is very enjoyable and fufulling.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

license, check . . . insurance . . . ?

No insurance at the moment. I'll have to figure a way to deal with that. Last couple of jobs I did I asked the client to sign a no sue agreement. I don't like that much though....seems easy to beat.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Things are pretty good. Basically most middle age and above members when this thread started are still well and kicking. Life experiences have enabled them to deal with change easier perhaps.

Inflation has not been as heavy as what I expected it to be since the first post on this thread till now. It has been enough though to seriously effect those on fixed incomes or pretty much fixed wages in Canada. In our cases the cash flow each year is similar to 2008. Yet each ongoing year there is less surplus somehow.

Utilities have skyrocketed in our province and property taxes as well in the period. . Plus food prices are way up here compared to 2008 for certain. Food almost doubled perhaps locally. We do not track our food costs at all as a couple so it is a guesstimate.

I am not quite sure if the major side effect of governments printing money in excess quantitites has really totally impacted yet. My feeling is even with my limited intellect it has to be reflected more seriously at some time. How rather than if is what I am trying to consider as time moves along.

Things that are new to me. The much more recent generation is radically different in many ways for example has become pretty obvious. This means society as we know it will be different in many ways I suspect all too soon.

I slowed down this summer on purpose. Possibly to rethink our next project. This has also felt strange to me.

People that have sustained in a decent fashion during the now extended period of this 2008 event should be thankful they have. Too many families have not. I read an in depth article on the growth of food stamps for example reciently. Plus the situations that many users find themselves in.

I am somewhat surprised not to be as obsolete as I felt I might be by now. Although because of the generational differences I have to be to some extent.

My wife although five years younger is aging somewhat faster than me now. The upside is she was always a high energy person so she is slowly decreasing energy to normal now for her age. What really got my attention though is she made some minor misteaks. Nothing I would feel critical of though. Still highly unusual at the same time.

It is unfortunate another on the ground war in the middle east involving north Americans seems more probable than not. A military budget of 633 billion currently in the states cannot be sustained without most of the general population becoming poorer somehow in real terms either. I never broke that budget down to cost per capita yearly that are productive citizens. My guess is the figure per contributing individual would be staggering.

I was treated to a pleasant effect in our travels reciently. A somewhat prosperous town where no big box stores or malls where ever allowed to locate. It was amazing to see street after street of small enterprises still functioning for a town of its size.

Towns many times larger supported nowhere this many private ventures. That town may or may not have the low prices of wallmarts etc. Instead it has a lot of character and far more walking street traffic than I had seen in a long time. My guess though is the profit in the smaller enterprises stays or is invested in the community. This ideal that the high local property taxes collected from big box stores. Unless they negotiated major tax concessions as they usually do to locate there. What seems to have justified letting them in originally may have been a major error. Some of the fallout is becoming more obviously reciently.

It resembled a community of some time ago. I never fully realized how negative large malls and big box stores really extracted the livability price they do from communities.

Our own local malls are partially empty of tenants now for example. Yet there has been no resurgence of small family owned enterprises


Tourisim is down about 50 percent this year here over last year. This is one bell weather of the economic changes that have occurred that are ongoing.

We in north America have more or less locked into a low interest mentality. This may be a pretty permanent fixture.

The amount of unstructured and seemingly high amount of credit usage by the 18 to perhaps 30 or a little older age group makes me wonder about their possible negative net worth effect over time. Although this situation helps keep the economy going. My concern is without the easy credit we would dive fast.

Being gerbils on a treadmill is what it looks like to me. One wonders what has instigated this. Has the educational system and influence of parents been almost totally compromised?

Why I think society will undergo a signifigant change is because of the changes in values these things indicate. I am not at the same time saying whatever old values my age group has or had are right. Just the obvious schizim between the two will change things alone.

I do not know how it is going to work out. I suspect there might be an exodus of many people from big cities. There is not much of a life for many that are in them now. If this were to occur it might revitalize the smaller communities. The spread between the affluent and not so fortunate is obviously still growing very fast.