Good luck with that-

Is anyone else struck with the irony that the hated insurance companies ( one of the real stimuli for the HC bill in the first place) are going to reap massive profits as the government will now require everyone to buy a policy from said hated companies?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Revulsion is a more suitable term than irony.

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Toyota is a leader only because their drivers block everyone behind them. Oh what a feeling.

Well, that's the deal included in the bill. Everyone has to buy insurance from them while they have to agree to provide coverage to everyone. Personnally, I have no real problem with my insurance provider.

Wow, its amazing how two people can have such different intrepretations of the same situation.

The truth is that you would not even bring this subject up unless the republican talking points machine hadent puked it out.

And the truth is that it is a lie.

And no amount of evidence seems to change your perception.

I gave you the dialogue from the senate floor when this particular sham was first brought to light.

Arent you even a little curious as to how the media picks up on these stories even before they happen sometimes ???

The first thing that needs to happen is for you and everyone that takes your position is to admit that these choices are stupid. You ignore that and then call my position "rhetoric... (that is) ...long in the tooth" which pretty much says if I say it anymore you will ban me or give me an infraction. Veiled threats from a moderator against "one side" while speaking as a member posting from the "other side"" on a subject is akin to a judge acting as a prosecutor in a trial. Either ***** or get off the pot- you should not be doing both. How do you defend the tanning bed tax, or do you dislike it also?
You don't see any way this can happen- well you and others cannot see alot of things (and I cannot see things also- really no one is can excluded here). I can't see an easy way to do it either, but the view saying we cannot do it so it's off the table lacks any faith in both human ability and medical technology. I'm sure we can find a test to see if you've smoked tobacco in your life, and how long. With billions and billions of $ going toward health stuff I'm confident American ingenuity can figure that out.
BMI is a no brainer or a little brainer that won't need 2700 pages to explain it- and while again you think we do not have the political will to do this- that again lacks faith in the American people. We already believe in punishing folks for bad decisions- if you do not buy a hybrid you cannot drive in the car pool lane. We give tax breaks to hybrid buyers. We implement taxes then give breaks to folks that don't do stupid things. Why not BMI and tobacco use in health care? Insurance companies do it already- you smoke you pay a higher rate. You are fat? you pay a higher rate. People in 1989 would not believe much of what is happening now if you told them in 20 years X will happen.
If they majority takes your position then eventually the majority will also see that the rewards come for acting stupidly and we will spiral downward into the socialist hell some of us recognize and fear.

Current insurance business models work by 1) sharing the exposure of risk over a large base; 2) eliminating or reducing the risk of exposure; 3) minimizing the payout for insured losses; 4) reducing operational costs for administering the business; and 5) increased return on the investment of premiums that do not have to be in cash reserves.

Point being, there are several ways to run or ruin an insurance program.

I'm not speaking as the moderator..........but as an observer. You champion the position that fat people are not entitled to insurance paid for by the government. I agree. Now, how do you possibly frame it so that it's politically acceptable?

Without such a scenario, you've got nothing. You don't cover the people who desperately need insurance due to a disease that is not of their own doing so that you can avoid covering fat people.

OK................


Unfortunately, the majority has taken the position that some type of health care assistance is necessary in this society.

Contrasting this, they have not taken the position that fat people ought to be withheld from getting these benefits.

We live in a society where the government won't make the hard decisions. Just look at the gasoline consumption. We would be a hell of a lot better off if the government imposed a $1.00 surtax on gasoline and simultaneously provided a $500. credit to each driver. This would have the beneficial effect of downsizing vehicles. Will it ever happen...........of course not..........it's political suicide.

Therefore, any position that you take that has not a chance in hell of legislation simply becomes idealistic. Nothing wrong with that............just repeating it time and again gets a bit boring.

You don't see me championing for a gasoline tax on a daily basis...........and there's a good reason for that.

We actually had quite a debate about this subject in a bio ethics class.

We came to the conclusion that the costs of keeping track of who was a smoker, drinker, skydiver, etc.. and giving out heathcare credits according to lifestyle would far outweigh the costs of just providing them healthcare and not keeping tabs on their behaviors.

Personally I think most republican congress people are smart enough to know this, and are using it as another hollow weaopn to stir up the ignorant masses.

Fairness is sometimes not a possibility.
But it should not be used to impede progress.

And thank god life is not "fair", or I would still be in prison.

I thank God that He is not "fair" and does not reward us according to what we deserve.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

I do not believe in your God.

But I do believe in god.

Dont confuse a concept with a fantasy.

Wait till you get sick.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Without getting into details, my insurance provider has paid many $1000 per year in benefits to my family, including several years worth of one prescription that retails for about $1200 per month.

And you, do not confuse your wishful thinking with reality.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

So, do you folks think superman could beat up batman?