your guess would be incorrect.

and, for the record, i have visited - in my rather strange and twisted journey through life - a few detoxes and rehab facilities, if you really want to know.

(you needn't guess - i'll gladly answer any questions. i just figure most people don't want to hear about it - and have already been "programmed" [pun is intended] as to what to think about the whole issue, so why bother?)

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

i totally agree with your take on AA and ALANON what ever they all have an adjenda not seen till its to late

so your infection into liberalizum is the direct result of AA and alikes indoctrinate those who attend -

i seen that right AWAY when i visited and have some people i know been tryiing to de program -- good luck dude -- jz

well, no, i was a contrarian long before encountering the aa cult. i'm not a liberal, really. i distrust all doctrines, ideologies etc.

i avoid silly labels, which are usually quite simple and ignore the rather complex nature of life.

so, while i will admit to having been, a while ago, mind you, drunk and high for several years straight, i refuse to let someone define my entire existence as "alcoholic". nor do i care to be called a liberal, just because i didn't care for bush or reagan... because i also have little respect for clinton or obama either.

ok. end of boring, self serving lecture.

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Wouldn't it be nice
if everyone who's had no problem with
sobriety would understand those who are
embattled with addiction?

AA is not a perfect organization nor
should anyone expect them to be. But they
selflessly help anyone in need and not with just alcohol.

wouldn't it be nice if you had read my other posts in this thread?

then you might know that i spoke quite frankly of my own addiction to various substances? and horrific experiences with aa and various foolish clinics, rehabs and counselors?

wouldn't it be nice if you were not so brainwashed by aa that:

a) you wouldn't respond like a trained automoton to mindlessly defend aa when anyone dares to point out its cultlike and foolsih nature

b) wouldn't it be nice if you could at least respond with thoughts of your own instead of mindless dogma that has obviously been drilled into you by the "recovery" industry, either through their propaganda and/or your own sad experience (?) with countless meetings in which your soul has been dulled and destroyed, replaced by a martinette/convert.

circle the wagons there buddy, blame the messenger, and - by all means - call your sponsor!

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Haaaa, I love it....

The orange papers are great !

There is a lot of truth to what I have read so far.

Lots and lots of sick folks in this world... inside AA and out.

But you dont burn down the barn to solve a rat problem.

There is no perfect solution to problems as complex as addiction in humans.

And sometimes you cannot wait until there is one.

Heck, there does not seem to be any perfect solutions to lifes harder problems, thats why we call them challanges.

Man, this discussion is great. for those who thing AA or any other help org. is BS, well so be it. but for people that need help and have been helped it's a positive thing.

I wish everyone with addictions could help themselves but I realize sometimes it takes external help.

I feel that my own problems have been lessened by the help of others and now truly wish to help others if I can.


I am currently attending a support group for sex addicts.

__________________
So many Women so little duct tape.

Don't paint all AA groups with your wide brush.
I do not agree with you and I fail to
comprehend or understand why you wish to
kill off the only chance some may have for recovery.

Having a bad experience with your local group doesn't give an
excuse for you to disparage every AA group in
America. Do what works for you and we'll
do what works for us.

In the words of late 20th C philosopher . . . Sly Stone:


Different strokes for different folks and so on and so on and scooby doobie doo.

uh, i will exercise my freedom to speak anytime i like, thank you.

aa groups obviously differ - in terms of members - from place to place; the philosophy is the same, the methods of indoctrination are the same, and the damage they do to people who have drug and alcohol problems is, sadly... the same.

i am reminded of a good article by dr. jeffrey schaler (author addiction is a choice) on the psychology of cults - in particulr, aa- (and their individual members) and especially their response to anyone who questions their dogma, because, your response to my statements is, of course, textbook.

i am sorry you have been so influenced by the aa people, whose founder, bill wilson, was, as you may or may not know, a member of the oxford group, a cult whch forged ties with (and greatly admired) the nazis, especially in the 1930's. later versions of the oxford group continue to this day, and some of the names they have "recreated" themselves under include "moral (sic) rearmament" and everyone's fave from the 60's, "up with people".

well, keep coming back - and keep waiting (in vain) for the miracle.

p.s. you are not "powerless" (well, unless you let some group control you.)

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Post of the month!

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99 ML320
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13 Fiat Abarth
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88 Jaguar XJS12 H&E Edition
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For what it's worth I think Darktech
and others may be on to something.
Great ideas and view points.

Before I get too involved
I think it's worth noting
to anyone willing to listen or
change thier mind how imortant
having a open mind is.

__________________
So many Women so little duct tape.

perhaps it would be good if people would open their mind to the facts about aa.

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

and, i imagine there's a twelve step approach to that "addiction" too?

__________________
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

I know of no "step program" but it is a real problem that can tear apart a persons life.

I realize some think it's funny and others think it's just a part of life but if you were to hear some of these peoples stories you'd realize just how much they need help.

Being addicted to porn or having sex with prostitutes and homosexual encounters just to satisfy the sexual drive is not healthy. people living in shame or embarrassment trying to hide their addiction is hell.

__________________
So many Women so little duct tape.