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  #16  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:18 PM
Craig
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Originally Posted by okyoureabeast View Post
Wow.

It's comments like these that scare me. I hope to goodness you guys aren't on the wrong end of a disagreement with a firing squad. Seriously think about what you're saying. The court of public opinion is one that is easily swayed.

I personally would rather have one nut job go free then an innocent man get killed because of some military intelligence officer saw him as a threat. I pay for the priviledge of being judged fairly.

I love and respect your conversation gentlemen and please take this as comfortably as you can, but I'm grateful I don't live under leaders who enact this wild west justice on this whole country.
I wouldn't worry about it, we don't have a clue what the real story is. People who make these types of comments are the intended audiance for the public story, just tell them what they want to hear and they'll eat it up. Like it or not, there is a domestic political angle to these issues; bread and circuses, as always.

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  #17  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
That's an entirely different issue. There is a legal system that exists to try such cases.
I'm no lawyer. Here's whats in wikipedia:

-----------------------------------
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
-----------------------------------

The description fits.
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by raymr View Post
I'm no lawyer. Here's whats in wikipedia:

-----------------------------------
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
-----------------------------------

The description fits.
Generally civilized countries without absolute power invested in government let courts decide whether the description fits or not.
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:42 PM
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The US Constitution:
Article 3, Section III
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

US Code Title 18
§ 2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States

So, if captured, his trial would be in civil court. He would not apparently be tried under the UCMJ or in a military tribunal. Shoot, we can't even find a home to try & fry KSM. Why bing this shmoe back.

BZ Mr. Prez. Two thumbs up.
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by okyoureabeast View Post
I pay for the priviledge of being judged fairly.
Meaningless unless youre stupid enough to put yourself in a position where you will be judged. In this case, fry the bastard and everyone of his collaborators.

- Peter.
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  #21  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by raymr View Post
Acts of treason need to be dealt with severely. They bring it upon themselves. It's one thing to speak your mind, but its another when you actively engage in destructive attacks on your own country. Unless you have a plan that you're not sharing, you have nothing to worry about.
Even some one that commits treason will have his moment in court; civilian or military. And nothing to worry about..."Ich habe es nicht gewusst".


Quote:
Originally Posted by SirNik84 View Post
I agree with Aklim, it is a step in the right direction... but I have to say. If this would have happened under Ws watch most of you would be talking about this being the beginning of the next holocaust.
Did you read all the responses?
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:13 PM
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Theres lots of intelligence gathering going on that we will never know about, and really it could have all been a covert operation if the feds wanted it to be. The fact that the plan is out in public gives everyone a chance to protest on behalf of the jihadist cleric if they so choose.
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  #23  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by raymr View Post
Theres lots of intelligence gathering going on that we will never know about, and really it could have all been a covert operation if the feds wanted it to be.
Courts are attempts to avoid exactly that. Governments have to prove their case in public. Why not just have cops shoot suspects instead of bothering with trials?
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Last edited by kerry; 04-07-2010 at 07:25 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:46 PM
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When I first heard this on the news I wondered what the big deal was. During the 1930's this sort of thing was done all the time. Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde....

About 30 years ago a guy shot up some shops near my home and was latter killed by the police when he was cornered and thought he should just shoot it out. A cop friend of mine said when he heard over the radio the old 'Armed and considered dangerious' there was only one way it was going to end.

By the way, I grew up knowing some of Clyde Barrow's old running buddies. They all said he got was he deserved since he was nothing but a cold blooded killer. It could be that someone somewhere looks upon the person in question here in the same way.
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  #25  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Courts are attempts to avoid exactly that. Governments have to prove their case in public. Why not just have cops shoot suspects instead of bothering with trials?
well, we had that here in los angeles ( rampart division; think training day, the movie which is based on those guys) the city is still paying millions in civil settlements.

anyway, fascism never seems to go out of style.

(for the record, i think the accused is a real pathetic idiot/lost brainwashed soul, and would be happy to personally lock him up and throw away the key, once he is convicted in a court of law.)
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  #26  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
anyway, fascism never seems to go out of style.
It's bizarre that the same people who think that the government isn't to be trusted enough to get involved in health care are happy to let the government execute its citizens at will.
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  #27  
Old 04-07-2010, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
It's bizarre that the same people who think that the government isn't to be trusted enough to get involved in health care are happy to let the government execute its citizens at will.
A slight difference though.

1. We are not talking trillions of dollars that they can squander away to buy votes
2. We are not talking about them managing something that should be YOUR responsibility
3. We are not talking about them helping you be more dependent on someone else for everything from cradle to grave.
4. We are not talking about them making a process more inefficient just for the sake of being egalitarian
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  #28  
Old 04-07-2010, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
A slight difference though.

1. We are not talking trillions of dollars that they can squander away to buy votes
2. We are not talking about them managing something that should be YOUR responsibility
3. We are not talking about them helping you be more dependent on someone else for everything from cradle to grave.
4. We are not talking about them making a process more inefficient just for the sake of being egalitarian
Correct. We are giving the institution that runs our Department of Motor Vehicles the right to execute citizens at will.
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  #29  
Old 04-07-2010, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Correct. We are giving the institution that runs our Department of Motor Vehicles the right to execute citizens at will.
We just turned a huge ticket item to them. How much worse can this one be? The screw up, that is. When the titanic was going down, did it matter that the stove was left on?
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  #30  
Old 04-07-2010, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Correct. We are giving the institution that runs our Department of Motor Vehicles the right to execute citizens at will.
Do you really think the US government holds a press conference every time they decide to kill an american citizen? Obviously, this info was made public for a reason.

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