Where's the outrage? - Page 8 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #**106** 11-22-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Often, the strength of laws is not in their permanence, but in their ability to be reviewed, modifed and revoked as it best serves the people who enacted them.

No dispute with that as long as they do it thru proper channels and not at will. I got busted for doing 25 over, lets say. Should I feel that the speed limit is inappropriate, I should change it legally and not just speed simply because I feel it is too slow. Sure, I can speed but I should pay the consequences for my action.

spdrun · #**107** 11-22-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

No dispute with that as long as they do it thru proper channels and not at will. I got busted for doing 25 over, lets say. Should I feel that the speed limit is inappropriate, I should change it legally and not just speed simply because I feel it is too slow. Sure, I can speed but I should pay the consequences for my action.

If enough people disagree with a law, even if it remains on the books, it becomes null and void by default. The government ends up shouting to a deaf audience, and the people who are tasked with enforcing the law end up reviled.

Anyway, my point is that the proper channels are broken at the moment. If your front door lock is jammed, you don't keep trying to twist the key till it breaks. You go around back, remove the lock from the inside, and clean it till it works again.

MTI · #**108** 11-22-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

No dispute with that as long as they do it thru proper channels and not at will. I got busted for doing 25 over, lets say. Should I feel that the speed limit is inappropriate, I should change it legally and not just speed simply because I feel it is too slow. Sure, I can speed but I should pay the consequences for my action.

Should the consequence of your action be a faceful of pepper spray? Should you be subject to a body cavity search for not using a turn signal?

spdrun · #**109** 11-22-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Should the consequence of your action be a faceful of pepper spray? Should you be subject to a body cavity search for not using a turn signal?

Or for illegal parking, which would be the automotive equivalent of blocking a sidewalk. Honestly, the proper response if any would have been to take ID's or photos, and write desk appearance summonses. But pushing the button on a bottle of pepper spray was so much more fun than actual police work.

aklim · #**110** 11-22-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Do as is permitted and encouraged in the Constitution. And yeah, sometimes it's inconvenient to live in a free country.

Call it the price of democracy in action. Your meat grinder example fails, since that's using violence against an innocent party. The protestors were sitting down on the sidewalk, not marching with pitchforks and torches.

Don't like what's going on? Like the streets spotless? Move the hell back to Singapore. Funny and sad how you came here and never really assimilated.

So you are saying now that there is a legal loophole in the constitution that permits me to block a path if I feel disenfranchised? Where EXACTLY does it say I can violate the rights of others again? I might need that in my next brush with the law.

On the one hand you feel I should do as I see fit to achieve my goals (by means fair and foul were your words) and yet on the other, you say I should not. Keep consistent. Either I can or I cannot.

That is not democracy. That is forcing someone to do as you wish. they did NOt have the right to block any sidewalk. Again, what is the necessity to block roads, etc, etc? So you would give the abortion protesters the right to block entrances, lie in the parking lots, etc, etc?

Assimilated what? The value of lawlessness? Guess not

spdrun · #**111** 11-22-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So you are saying now that there is a legal loophole in the constitution that permits me to block a path if I feel disenfranchised?

How about the right to peacefully assemble, as those students were doing? I'm sure there were other paths around the one that was blocked.

And as I said, the police response was disproportionate. They were basically doing the equivalent of illegal parking. Take names, take photos, give desk-appearance tickets rather than using violence.

aklim · #**112** 11-22-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

All orders? So if a cop told you to sodomize yourself with his baton, you'd do so without complaint, then go to court?

Are you trying to be ridiculous? Why not ask if the cop told me to murder someone? Get real. We are talking about a legal order here not some fantasy land idea. Those idiots KNEW it was illegal and it was not some obscure law written 40 years ago in some deep dark corner of the law books as a footnote.

aklim · #**113** 11-22-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

And if the means is unfairly slanted in favor of the cops? Sometimes vigilantism is necessary.

Not necessarily violent vigilantism

And pray tell, who decides when it is that "sometimes"? How about with the guy who owes me money? Can I decide that I can just break into his house and steal stuff till I get enough to cover what I think he owes me?

So not ruling that out then?

Air&Road · #**114** 11-22-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Are you trying to be ridiculous? Why not ask if the cop told me to murder someone? Get real. We are talking about a legal order here not some fantasy land idea. Those idiots KNEW it was illegal and it was not some obscure law written 40 years ago in some deep dark corner of the law books as a footnote.

That's what makes them an OWS protestor. They are willing and even extremely desirous of breaking the law.

spdrun · #**115** 11-22-2011, 01:08 PM

OK, Aklim - by your own idea, the cops could tell every demonstration to disperse, it would disperse, and the demonstrators would go to court, they would get a decision, one side or the other would appeal, and appeal again, and by that time the issue would be moot.

Do you really want to live in a society where people essentially can't or don't demonstrate when there's a worthy cause?

spdrun · #**116** 11-22-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

And pray tell, who decides when it is that "sometimes"? How about with the guy who owes me money? Can I decide that I can just break into his house and steal stuff till I get enough to cover what I think he owes me?

I'd sure as hell support you if you did.

aklim · #**117** 11-22-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Anyway, my point is that the proper channels are broken at the moment. If your front door lock is jammed, you don't keep trying to twist the key till it breaks. You go around back, remove the lock from the inside, and clean it till it works again.

Everybody feels that when the judgment goes against them too. I have had cases were we couldn't collect on a legal judgment. Could I too declare that the system is broken and thus have the right to collect what I feel I am owed as I please by any means necessary? Where will it end? Besides at anarchy, that is.

By your philosophy, what is the point of having legal channels? It is always going to be harder than to take the law into my hands. If you owe me money and won't pay, it is harder to go thru the courts, after which, you might simply declare bankruptcy and I wasted my time and more money. Might as well send some thugs over and beat the money out of you plus interest and fees since I could say the system is broke and I am going thru the backdoor.

aklim · #**118** 11-22-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Should the consequence of your action be a faceful of pepper spray?

Should you be subject to a body cavity search for not using a turn signal?

If it makes it easier to move you and you were warned, yes. If I were to do that, I expect that they will move me by any legal means.

No, Summary execution./

Air&Road · #**119** 11-22-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Everybody feels that when the judgment goes against them too. I have had cases were we couldn't collect on a legal judgment. Could I too declare that the system is broken and thus have the right to collect what I feel I am owed as I please by any means necessary? Where will it end? Besides at anarchy, that is.

By your philosophy, what is the point of having legal channels? It is always going to be harder than to take the law into my hands. If you owe me money and won't pay, it is harder to go thru the courts, after which, you might simply declare bankruptcy and I wasted my time and more money. Might as well send some thugs over and beat the money out of you plus interest and fees since I could say the system is broke and I am going thru the backdoor.

Another example of the wide spread willingness of people to simply thumb their nose at the law. Very sad state of affairs.

spdrun · #**120** 11-22-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Everybody feels that when the judgment goes against them too. I have had cases were we couldn't collect on a legal judgment. Could I too declare that the system is broken and thus have the right to collect what I feel I am owed as I please by any means necessary? Where will it end? Besides at anarchy, that is.

By your philosophy, what is the point of having legal channels? It is always going to be harder than to take the law into my hands. If you owe me money and won't pay, it is harder to go thru the courts, after which, you might simply declare bankruptcy and I wasted my time and more money. Might as well send some thugs over and beat the money out of you plus interest and fees since I could say the system is broke and I am going thru the backdoor.

I'm not opposed to that if all legal channels are corrupt and have been exhausted by the injured party. We need a bit more anarchy in this country -- the 99% of the public are too law-abiding for their own good. Maybe if the people who brought contaminated Chinese goods into this country (for example) knew that they'd be strung up by the b@lls by an angry mob if someone died because of it, they'd be less complacent.