C8 Corvette Will Only be Available with Two Pedals - Page 12 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Skid Row Joe · #**166** 03-25-2020, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Mike

Sticks no longer get better fuel economy in everyday driving. Any decent AT can control engine speed as well as a stick.

If you like it for the fun factor, go with it. But it is no longer better, or even cheaper to buy. I have not had any modern AT fail on me.

Uh, no...…. Actually, they do get better mileage. As well, they're a couple thousand dollars LESS $$$ when buying the manual transmission. Better, too. You may not be up to date on em...

Skid Row Joe · #**167** 03-25-2020, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I'd have to agree with Skids on this. (mark that down).

Which is better is completely dependant on how you value things. Personally I like shifting. A stick will outlast an automatic and be cheaper to repair if needed, too.

We're learning more on a daily basis now of the C8's performance numbers. There's not one shred of evidence that the manufacturer's claim of a 2.8 sec. 0-60 Z51 was true. Total lie. Times are coming in in the mid 3s. The absolute doggyness of it's 60-130mph times are laughable as well. What's becoming crystal clear is the come on of the 1st and second gear LOW ratio to get to rockin' 1/4 mile times. Other than that, the car's a dog without mods. The C7Z06es are still King Of The Hill at this stage. Owners are also finding out their ME design engines are getting soiled in road water and dirt - which will undoubtedly drive many of them bonkers.

tbomachines · #**168** 03-25-2020, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Uh, no...…. Actually, they do get better mileage. As well, they're a couple thousand dollars LESS $$$ when buying the manual transmission. Better, too. You may not be up to date on em...

well...here you go.

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html

P.C. · #**169** 03-25-2020, 05:40 PM

Joe's observations were spot-on...in 1960...

davidmash · #**170** 03-25-2020, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

We're learning more on a daily basis now of the C8's performance numbers. There's not one shred of evidence that the manufacturer's claim of a 2.8 sec. 0-60 Z51 was true. Total lie. Times are coming in in the mid 3s. The absolute doggyness of it's 60-130mph times are laughable as well. What's becoming crystal clear is the come on of the 1st and second gear LOW ratio to get to rockin' 1/4 mile times. Other than that, the car's a dog without mods. The C7Z06es are still King Of The Hill at this stage. Owners are also finding out their ME design engines are getting soiled in road water and dirt - which will undoubtedly drive many of them bonkers.

Found a shred.

Quote:

The 2020 Chevrolet Corvette performed a 2.8-second zero-to-60-mph run in C/D testing.
• Equally impressive: It covered the quarter-mile in just 11.2 seconds at 122 mph.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29458414/2020-chevy-corvette-zero-to-60-mph-tested/

Does your RV not have up to date internet access?

P.C. · #**171** 03-25-2020, 06:53 PM

Even better - a comparison of the C7 and the C8 on the racetrack:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29431246/chevrolet-corvette-c8-vs-c7/

The C8 was lauded for it's ease of driving on the track compared to the twitchy, antiquated C7...

t walgamuth · #**172** 03-25-2020, 09:51 PM

Good test but the tires were not identical.

In my experience the rear mid engine car should be easier to drive fast, more stable entering the turn and accelerate harder out.

JB3 · #**173** 03-26-2020, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Uh, no...…. Actually, they do get better mileage. As well, they're a couple thousand dollars LESS $$$ when buying the manual transmission. Better, too. You may not be up to date on em...

I like sticks too, but you are utterly clueless. Modern automated manual can shift into a pre selected gear in a matter of milliseconds. They arent inefficient old slushboxes anymore, and havent been for years.

The downfall of widespread manual gearbox options started when automatics started to surpass them in efficiency. Fun remains.

In a number of applications they are now the more expensive option as well.

Your opinion is about 25 to 30 years out of date.

rwd4evr · #**174** 03-27-2020, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Mike

Sticks no longer get better fuel economy in everyday driving. Any decent AT can control engine speed as well as a stick.

If you like it for the fun factor, go with it. But it is no longer better, or even cheaper to buy. I have not had any modern AT fail on me.

It's parasitic loss that makes an auto worse mileage wise, not a computer controller.

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rwd4evr · #**175** 03-27-2020, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

I like sticks too, but you are utterly clueless. Modern automated manual can shift into a pre selected gear in a matter of milliseconds. They arent inefficient old slushboxes anymore, and havent been for years.

The downfall of widespread manual gearbox options started when automatics started to surpass them in efficiency. Fun remains.

In a number of applications they are now the more expensive option as well.

Your opinion is about 25 to 30 years out of date.

Not clueless. He was talking about an auto. Not a dual clutch manumatic.

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t walgamuth · #**176** 03-27-2020, 08:58 AM

I don't think there is much parasitic loss with the dual clutch automatics.

tbomachines · #**177** 03-27-2020, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Not clueless. He was talking about an auto. Not a dual clutch manumatic.

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An auto also qualifies....the widely used ZF 8HP auto shift times are 200ms.

rwd4evr · #**178** 03-27-2020, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

An auto also qualifies....the widely used ZF 8HP auto shift times are 200ms.

What does that have to do with anything? Some one said that modern automatics are better because old manuals got better mileage than automatics, now autos do. Not reality at all. An 8 speed auto may get better than a 4 speed or even 5 speed OD in very specific situations but the parasitic loss of an auto is going to kill mileage all day. On top of that who gives a **** if anything shifts in 2ms or . 5 second. Unless you are in a formula one race or on a 1/4 mile drag strip it makes absolutely zero difference. That's why a dual clutch is just a crutch for people that can't drive a stick at a reasonable level and magazine number racers, nobody knows that thier street car is doing 0-60 in 3.2 or 3.6 or 4.6 for that matter. It's irrelevant. Before they would do something crazy,Ike I dont know, offer a manual and an automatic (gasp!). And on top of that the stupid dual clutch flappy paddle shifter c8 trans has already began barfing all over dragstrips everywhere.

https://youtu.be/oOq0sBpStC0

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Captainaudio, an auto in lockup is still driving the pump. That's where alot of parasitic loss is. Lockup torque converters have been around for ages. My 81 Malibu had one.

tbomachines · #**179** 03-27-2020, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

What does that have to do with anything? Some one said that modern automatics are better because old manuals got better mileage than automatics, now autos do. Not reality at all. An 8 speed auto may get better than a 4 speed or even 5 speed OD in very specific situations but the parasitic loss of an auto is going to kill mileage all day. On top of that who gives a **** if anything shifts in 2ms or . 5 second. Unless you are in a formula one race or on a 1/4 mile drag strip it makes absolutely zero difference. That's why a dual clutch is just a crutch for people that can't drive a stick at a reasonable level and magazine number racers, nobody knows that thier street car is doing 0-60 in 3.2 or 3.6 or 4.6 for that matter. It's irrelevant. Before they would do something crazy,Ike I dont know, offer a manual and an automatic (gasp!). And on top of that the stupid dual clutch flappy paddle shifter c8 trans has already began barfing all over dragstrips everywhere.

https://youtu.be/oOq0sBpStC0

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

Captainaudio, an auto in lockup is still driving the pump. That's where alot of parasitic loss is. Lockup torque converters have been around for ages. My 81 Malibu had one.

Much of the parasitic loss is in the "slush" shifts which has been all but eliminated. Manual transmissions have gears and oil too, and are no better now.

I can drive stick great, have for years, and prefer it. But...

Quote:

That's why a dual clutch is just a crutch for people that can't drive a stick at a reasonable level and magazine numbers

You should try one sometime and push it a little, theyre an absolute blast.

JB3 · #**180** 03-28-2020, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Not clueless. He was talking about an auto. Not a dual clutch manumatic.

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Those qualify as a type of automatic. The reality is automatic efficiency across the board has risen. Now if you want to cherry pick and narrow the definition of the automatic to a specific TYPE of automatic that can be beat by a manual in efficiency, then you can find examples, but even then its getting harder to find something that doesnt match the typical manual in efficiency.

We can argue about this all day, but the reality is the principle advantange of a manual is now fun factor.