How do you think biodiesel fits into the equation?

It costs more in energy to make than the amount of energy that ethanol can give. So in the future we learn to make it cheaper and faster and we make engines that run more efficient on ethanol than they do gas, diesel or electricity.

=============================================
Brazil has been using mostly ethanol refined from cane since the 1980's
Brazil is now nearly energy self sufficient.
This has been a big boon for Brazil. Check out the appreciation of the two Brazilian mutual funds (BZF and EWZ) for the past several years.

If it is true that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than there is in ethanol, then where has Brazil been getting the energy to produce all that ethanol?

This sounds like an awlman myth to me. Not true.

__________________
Semibodacious Transmogrifications a Specialty

1990 300D 2.5 Turbo sedan 171K (Rudolf)
1985 300D Turbo TD Wagon 219K (Remuda)

"Time flies like and arrow, yet fruit flies like a banana"
---Marx (Groucho)

Ethanol has less BTU than gas which has less BTU than diesel. So, unless you compare a modern engine made to run ethanol vs an old gas or diesel engine, aren't you going to come up short? IOW, the best gas engine you build vs the best diesel engine you can build vs the best ethanol engine you can build, cost be damned, isn't the best diesel going to beat the best gas and both beat ethanol?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Its all supply and demand economics. Their is a lot of oil in Russia, like 300-400 years worth last I heard. They also suspect a very very large field in northern Iraq, where they love us!

As the price per barrel rises it becomes more viable to extract the oil from Russia.

Oil is going to get more expensive, but I wouldn't be surprised if 50-100 years from now if we were still using a lot of it.

Not to mention this country is sitting on about 400 years worth of coal.

We will get off oil but only when an alternitive becomes cheaper.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Didn't I hear something today that Mexico has just found "the Mother Load"?

Coal shale extraction out West etc.

But yes we should be using less, Biodiesel needs to come up, but supply and demand dictate otherwise for now.

I still miss my TDI and Honda HF.

__________________
raMBow

1999 E300DT Obsydian Black Metallic, Heated Full Leather Parchment options, E2, K2, 136,000+, best 36.5 mpg - GP's 12-04 & 11-12 Zero Stuck
2010 Honda Odyssey - The BrideMobile - best 26.5
(2) 2005 Honday Accord- (1 -Corporate 1 - Personal) - 110,000 4-cyl 30mpg
2000 VW Golf GLS TDI, Upsolute Chip (sold to Brother, now 300+k on it) 48.5 mpg like clock work
1987 Honda CRX HF - Sold 87,000 always over 50 mpg Max 67 mpg

Not sure of what you're talking about here. Russia is and has always been extracting its oil. It currently sells 8.5 million barrells a day and is the world's second largest oil exporter after Saudi Arabia which produces 11 million barrells per day.

As the price of oil stays high, other means of getting it will be considered even though those means are expensive. However, the high costs of oil will make those alternatives feasible - like oil extraction from tar tar sands, coal, and even asphalt. Of course, the risk there is that once those alternative means are utilized to produce more oil, then oil prices will fall thereby making the usage of those alternative means infeasible...

__________________
1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Emissions are only a small part of the story, diesels can be fixed. Hybrids are like nuclar subs, a mortal can't fix the thing. I suspect you will be seeing a lot of them getting junked around the 10 year mark because something brakes and it isn't worth fixing that and replacing the battery pack.


The world has a lot of oil, I certainly expect to be driven to the grave yard in a gas or diesel powerd vehical.

My Uncle knows someone who bought a new Prius, they can only manage like 45mpg if they baby it. Why bother, it is a crappy light little car, I'd rather buy a Passat or Jetta, at least then you have a normal car that gets about the same mileage. A normal Civic for that matter is rated 40mpg on the highway, the price difference between a Civic and Prius can buy a heck of a lot of gas.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

You guys have probably seen this before... but for those that have not.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050607.004/mercedes/1.html

__________________
-Marty

1986 300E 220,000 miles+ transmission impossible
(Now waiting under a bridge in order to become one)

Reading your M103 duty cycle:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831799-post13.html
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831807-post14.html

That thing looks like a Pontiac Aztec that hit a brick wall.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Very cool car and article. Thanks for posting it.

""AdBlue" is an aqueous urea solution which is sprayed into the exhaust system in precisely metered quantities, depending on the engine operating status. This converts the nitrogen oxides into harmless nitrogen and water."

That brings new meaning to "European Car" (You're a Peein' Car). Yuk, yuk, yuk.

Andrew

You give them 10 years? Geeze I maybe I sound radical at my 5-7 estimate. Last I heard Prius's need a battery back every 3-4 years I have not seen the price of the pack.

__________________
Adam Lumsden
(83) 300D
Vice-President of the MBCA International Stars Section

Last I heard battery's cost $2k. These are not MB's no one spends $2k to repair a Toyota.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Time will tell how long it actually lasts and we will see whether they are happy with it or not. The question is, IIRC, it was more costly than the gas only equivalent of the car. So, how much more will it save the buyer throughout the life of the car, all things considered?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I have had my '98 Jetta Tdi since new and have put over 235k miles on it. I can get 50mpg with cargo and passengers in it all day long. Yes the stop and go mileage will obviously be less. But I can carry 5 fat people and all their luggage. The Prius cannot do that! Plus I would already have had to change out the Prius $5k battery pack twice!

No thanks to hybrids for me. Diesel is a much more viable option as long as we continue to use combustion engines.

__________________
1981 300D 147k
1998 VW Jetta Tdi 320k
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 141k
1979 300D 234k (sold)
1984 300D "Astor" 262k(sold)
Mercedes How-To and Repair Pictorials
I love the smell of diesel smoke in my hair

i want to ad a factor about the hybrids that has not been mentioned yet. The latest consumer report had a large 4 page article on hybrid technology and if it makes sense. they came up with the fact that hybrids technology does not pay for itself in gas savings. they factor in Fuel savings, Tax credits (60,000 vehicle cap per manufacturer, which will phase out soon, making hybrids $650 to $3,150 more), Higher retail price, and Extra depriciation, Higher insurance premiums, and Higher maintenance and repair. there is lots more in the arcticle, but this makes me lean in the way of a jetta myself.

if anyone wants me to scan the article i can email it, send me a pm.

__________________

Grey '91 350SDL 214k Dad's car
Beige '81 240D 4 Speed 254k SOLD
Blue '82 300D 225k SOLD
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
Blue '87 190D 2.5 Turbo 315k SOLD
Brown '80 240D 4 Speed 716k SOLD
Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
Blue '85 300D Model 186k T-Boned