The Jetta Tdi spanks the Prius Hybrid - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #61 05-11-2006, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

Unless of course it was averaging high mpg's. Then it would just balance out in miles.

Even though diesel is 2-4cents more expensive then regular gas we can average more mpg then the gasser passat could. So the price increase isnt a problem.

On a TDI, yes. I was thinking of having it on a Hummer. For that, I am not certain that given the weight and wonderful aerodynamics of the Hummer or any SUV, it would make that much of a difference to offset the higher cost. I know that with the Ford Excursion, you are paying about $5500 more for the diesel engine. Not sure that when you factor in everything else, it is worth it. IOW, how long till you recoupe your investment. If you save $500 a year in fuel, it will take you over 11 years to recoupe your investment. I'd have to save over $1000 a year just in fuel costs to get my money back in 5 years.

300sdToronto · #62 05-11-2006, 03:57 PM

Coupla points folks have not mentioned.

As well as the Prius being "greener" in reputation, Toyota have a well deserved reputation for reliability and good dealer attitude. VWs on the other hand have drastically declined in build quality over the past 10 years and have about the worst dealer-manufacturer relations of any car retailer operating in the US.

Joe public is not stupid. Toyota has a good reputation and is growing. VW has quality problems and has lousy business prospects. VWs business in the US has tanked and now their China business has problems too. So people who want good fuel economy buy Toyotas, even if a Jetta diesel is a nice machine.

Rich300TDMBZ · #63 05-11-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300sdToronto

Coupla points folks have not mentioned.

As well as the Prius being "greener" in reputation, Toyota have a well deserved reputation for reliability and good dealer attitude. VWs on the other hand have drastically declined in build quality over the past 10 years and have about the worst dealer-manufacturer relations of any car retailer operating in the US.

Joe public is not stupid. Toyota has a good reputation and is growing. VW has quality problems and has lousy business prospects. VWs business in the US has tanked and now their China business has problems too. So people who want good fuel economy buy Toyotas, even if a Jetta diesel is a nice machine.

I cannot agree with you more. Many people do not even know how to do the basic maintenance. All they want is a car that starts when they turned the key. VW produces some nice cars, but their reliablity is in question. A friend of mine has the new Beetle, and after 60,000 miles (4th year of ownship), it was towed 3x in a month. As a working mum, that's not acceptable. She is now driving a used Honda Civic.

aklim · #64 05-11-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300sdToronto

So people who want good fuel economy buy Toyotas, even if a Jetta diesel is a nice machine.

Well, the US is not very warm to diesels. That might be part of the equation.

aklim · #65 05-11-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich300TDMBZ

I cannot agree with you more. Many people do not even know how to do the basic maintenance. All they want is a car that starts when they turned the key. VW produces some nice cars, but their reliablity is in question. A friend of mine has the new Beetle, and after 60,000 miles (4th year of ownship), it was towed 3x in a month. As a working mum, that's not acceptable. She is now driving a used Honda Civic.

3 times in a month is pretty high. Was it the same issue or different issues? My 91 Firebird had a dead battery after 3 months and I bought it with less than 200 miles on the clock. 6 months later, same issue. Each time the charging system was tested and no faults. After that, the battery lasted several years.

I guess my question is what is the overall reliability of the VW?

t walgamuth · #66 05-11-2006, 05:36 PM

i just dont get the attraction of a hummer. or a harley.

similar image things happening there i think.

and anyone desiring those two may also need a 44 magnum.

tom w

aklim · #67 05-11-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

i just dont get the attraction of a hummer. or a harley.

similar image things happening there i think.

and anyone desiring those two may also need a 44 magnum.

tom w

Well, I don't either but the Hummer is a damn sight more versitile than a prius. Would I pay for a Hummer if an equivalent SUV were advailable? Probably not. However, between a Hummer and a Prius, all things being equal, I'd pick the Hummer. For the little gas savings, I'd gain versatility. I can tow a 5000# boat or camper, take the dogs, dump cargo. That is the beauty of a Truck/SUV but the price is more fuel. No free lunch. For me to replace my SUV, I would need a Truck and a Station Wagon. More vehicles = more insurance. Add that to the cost of the vehicle itself and the storage spot and another vehicle like a reliable Station Wagon will NEVER pay for itself with the gas savings.

I would desire the Harley if I knew how to ride one. The 44 Mag is a little small. I like my 454 Casull. Maybe the 500 S&W.

Rich300TDMBZ · #68 05-11-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

3 times in a month is pretty high. Was it the same issue or different issues?

Electrical problems, all three times. For a woman to be stranded three times, and had to wait more than an hour each time for the AAA, put her off VW for good.

aklim · #69 05-11-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich300TDMBZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

3 times in a month is pretty high. Was it the same issue or different issues?

Electrical problems, all three times. For a woman to be stranded three times, and had to wait more than an hour each time for the AAA, put her off VW for good.

I'm not sure. I have seen some people who just love their TDIs and their Beetles to death. I would be intersted to know if it was a bad diagnosis the first 2 times or what. Could it have been just a freak?

Next Question. Is this common for VWs or just an abberation?

Rich300TDMBZ · #70 05-11-2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I'm not sure. I have seen some people who just love their TDIs and their Beetles to death. I would be intersted to know if it was a bad diagnosis the first 2 times or what. Could it have been just a freak?

Next Question. Is this common for VWs or just an abberation?

I don't think electrical problems in VW is an abberation, or just happened in one car. Check Google and you will read plenty of them. Here is one example:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/vw_smoke.html

Brian Carlton · #71 05-11-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich300TDMBZ

Electrical problems, all three times. For a woman to be stranded three times, and had to wait more than an hour each time for the AAA, put her off VW for good.

Interesting point. And I agree completely. Usually the first stranding of a woman will put the idea of a new vehicle firmly in her cranium. The second stranding is the kiss of death. A third stranding...............

iNeon · #72 05-11-2006, 08:16 PM

I think that maybe the fault in these newer cars are not manufacturer caused problems.

There have to be cases of sensors not communicating well with one another and making the mechanical assemblys they are part of not work together by association.

We have an Intrepid, 97 model, nice little car but it hit us with a $1,000.00 wave of sensor after sensor after control module after sensor, after wiring loom after blah blah blah.

I think that is par for the course on quite a few of the modern cars. They aren't ALL bad, but a few of them are so bad, they cannot be readily repaired by the home mechanic. It is an odds game with all modern electronic cars and some of these bad apples come from *every* manufacturer.

That said-- I would not buy a new vw unless it was sold for what it was worth and not what they think it is worth. A $25,000.00 "value edition" jetta is not my idea of a nice automobile. Especially considering that for 5 grand more, you get a v6 and a 3 pointed star.

Hatterasguy · #73 05-11-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iNeon

A $25,000.00 "value edition" jetta is not my idea of a nice automobile. Especially considering that for 5 grand more, you get a v6 and a 3 pointed star.

$10k-$15k more actually.

iNeon · #74 05-11-2006, 09:34 PM

Hey, a base car is a base car, right?

The 'value edition' Jettas at my local dealer were 25-27 grand, why does it say they start at 17,900? The 230 starts at 30, I did not realize the numbers were *that* off!

Seems like maybe those cars were better outfitted than a base model, but still.. out the door, it could not be much much more, pending, of course, that you can find a base BASE C230.

Hatterasguy · #75 05-11-2006, 09:37 PM

Don't buy into those "base" numbers. Take a 325I for example. What's a base example about $30k?

I priced one out with like 2-3 options, didn't even look into tax, title etc., and I was up to $34k.

You want a C class? Expect to pay mid to high 30's out the door. Same with the BMW.

The base models are pretty base. If you want an auto tranny, leather, xenon(sp?) lights, etc. you will pay more.