The Jetta Tdi spanks the Prius Hybrid - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

braverichard · #46 05-10-2006, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Its all supply and demand economics. Their is a lot of oil in Russia, like 300-400 years worth last I heard. They also suspect a very very large field in northern Iraq, where they love us!

As the price per barrel rises it becomes more viable to extract the oil from Russia.

Oil is going to get more expensive, but I wouldn't be surprised if 50-100 years from now if we were still using a lot of it.

Not to mention this country is sitting on about 400 years worth of coal.

We will get off oil but only when an alternitive becomes cheaper.

Not sure of what you're talking about here. Russia is and has always been extracting its oil. It currently sells 8.5 million barrells a day and is the world's second largest oil exporter after Saudi Arabia which produces 11 million barrells per day.

As the price of oil stays high, other means of getting it will be considered even though those means are expensive. However, the high costs of oil will make those alternatives feasible - like oil extraction from tar tar sands, coal, and even asphalt. Of course, the risk there is that once those alternative means are utilized to produce more oil, then oil prices will fall thereby making the usage of those alternative means infeasible...

Hatterasguy · #47 05-10-2006, 12:57 PM

Emissions are only a small part of the story, diesels can be fixed. Hybrids are like nuclar subs, a mortal can't fix the thing. I suspect you will be seeing a lot of them getting junked around the 10 year mark because something brakes and it isn't worth fixing that and replacing the battery pack.

The world has a lot of oil, I certainly expect to be driven to the grave yard in a gas or diesel powerd vehical.

My Uncle knows someone who bought a new Prius, they can only manage like 45mpg if they baby it. Why bother, it is a crappy light little car, I'd rather buy a Passat or Jetta, at least then you have a normal car that gets about the same mileage. A normal Civic for that matter is rated 40mpg on the highway, the price difference between a Civic and Prius can buy a heck of a lot of gas.

A264172 · #48 05-10-2006, 02:23 PM

You guys have probably seen this before... but for those that have not.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050607.004/mercedes/1.html

rg2098 · #49 05-10-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Emissions are only a small part of the story, diesels can be fixed. Hybrids are like nuclar subs, a mortal can't fix the thing. I suspect you will be seeing a lot of them getting junked around the 10 year mark because something brakes and it isn't worth fixing that and replacing the battery pack....

You give them 10 years? Geeze I maybe I sound radical at my 5-7 estimate. Last I heard Prius's need a battery back every 3-4 years I have not seen the price of the pack.

Hatterasguy · #50 05-10-2006, 05:41 PM

Last I heard battery's cost $2k. These are not MB's no one spends $2k to repair a Toyota.

aklim · #51 05-10-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A264172

You guys have probably seen this before... but for those that have not.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050607.004/mercedes/1.html

That thing looks like a Pontiac Aztec that hit a brick wall.

aklim · #52 05-10-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rg2098

You give them 10 years? Geeze I maybe I sound radical at my 5-7 estimate. Last I heard Prius's need a battery back every 3-4 years I have not seen the price of the pack.

Time will tell how long it actually lasts and we will see whether they are happy with it or not. The question is, IIRC, it was more costly than the gas only equivalent of the car. So, how much more will it save the buyer throughout the life of the car, all things considered?

Jeremy5848 · #53 05-10-2006, 07:46 PM

Seems to me I read a review somewhere that said that the Prius would _never_ pay back the purchase price differential in gas savings.

Hatterasguy has a point: the Prius is a low-priced car, even with the hybrid premium, and won't get the care a more expensive car will get. A good analogy might be a 1980s diesel Bunny versus a 1980s diesel Mercedes. A lot of the latter still running around in great shape (including mine) because previous owners took care of them. $2000 for a battery is almost 10% of the purchase price of the car.

It would be interesting to learn what percent of Priuses are _leased_ as opposed to owned. Lessees don't care what happens in 5 to 7 years -- they have long since turned in the car for a new one. (Welcome to the throwaway society!)

aklim · #54 05-10-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

Seems to me I read a review somewhere that said that the Prius would _never_ pay back the purchase price differential in gas savings.

It would be interesting to learn what percent of Priuses are _leased_ as opposed to owned. Lessees don't care what happens in 5 to 7 years -- they have long since turned in the car for a new one. (Welcome to the throwaway society!)

So why are people getting a hard-on for those things? If it won't pay back within X years, why would I want to buy it? I bought my diesel when diesel was cheaper and got 5 mpg more than my C280 got. So, in so many years, it probably would pay for itself. I cannot see buying something that won't pay for itself one way or the other. Yes, it is cool and all that but as they say $$ talks, **** walks. You are going to need to figure out what it costs when you count maintenance and all that since it isn't only gas or diesel that runs a car.

As a lessee I would care what happens to a car 5-7 years. The company I lease it from does and figures that into the lease.

t walgamuth · #55 05-10-2006, 09:17 PM

some are fascinated by the technology. others like the high mileage claims. others feel morally correct because it is green.

personally i drove one and found it not very engaging to drive. kindof like a computer game. no feel. nothing to do except push gas pedal and brake pedal and steer.

otoh i drove an insight five speed and though i could enjoy owning that. it felt a lot like a 240 except quicker. i like the looks of it too.

i read recently that the batterys are lasting longer than projected originally.

tom w

sixto · #56 05-10-2006, 10:06 PM

If people are going to buy cars that don't make sense, I'd rather see them buy Priuses than Hummers.

Sixto

aklim · #57 05-10-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

If people are going to buy cars that don't make sense, I'd rather see them buy Priuses than Hummers.

Sixto

Nah! Hummers are GM and Priuses are Yoda. I'd rather they buy a Hummer till we walk away from manufacturing.

t walgamuth · #58 05-10-2006, 11:20 PM

i am with sixto on this one.

hybrids makes a lot of sense. i think in ten years it will be kindof hard to find cars without hybrid technology. it is no that big a deal. just a bigger starter that can be reversed and electronic brakes that charge a battery. not all that much to it i wouldnt think. some details to figure out, but hey, i think other mfgrs will simply buy the patent rights and build them.

hummers on the other hand done make much at all for prob 98% of the folks driving them.

now if they were diesel that would make a lot more sense.

tom w

aklim · #59 05-11-2006, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

hybrids makes a lot of sense. i think in ten years it will be kindof hard to find cars without hybrid technology. it is no that big a deal. just a bigger starter that can be reversed and electronic brakes that charge a battery. not all that much to it i wouldnt think. some details to figure out, but hey, i think other mfgrs will simply buy the patent rights and build them.

hummers on the other hand done make much at all for prob 98% of the folks driving them.

now if they were diesel that would make a lot more sense.

tom w

I hope you are wrong. I don't see how it helps at all. Now, if I were to buy a fleet of hybrid cars, I would use them for newspaper delivery in neighbourhoods. That is where they are good. On the roads where it isn't totally stop and go, I don't see the advantage. They are lugging around a really heavy battery. So, in a certain angle of view, it would make sense. For travelling say 10 miles to work where there aren't too many stop and go situations, I'd dump it in a heartbeat. The only difference, maintenance wise is maybe a few spark plugs. Now, the battery, I don't care how cheap it gets, it is still going to cost more than the plugs. Maintenance other than that is going to be about the same between gas engines. If I had to choose between that or a Jetta TDI, the TDI would win hands down. That and another small gas car, No Contest.

If we are talking about the car Hummer, and not the other kind, I'd have to say that the Hummer is a better all around vehicle. The hybrid would have to get at least 100 mpg to make it equal. The Hummer, as a 2nd vehicle can tow a 5000# boat, carry more cargo and be more comfortable for 4 passengers, should that need arise than the Prius will ever be. Last 2 times I drove a Prius, I kept looking in the rear view mirror for an anchor that seemed to be weighing the car down.

Unless I were towing a huge weight or the mileage was fantastically high, a diesel Hummer won't make that much sense. Diesels are good for load hauling, no doubt about it. For day to day running, I am not certain it is worth it unless diesel was much cheaper than gas, which it is not.

greasybenz · #60 05-11-2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

For day to day running, I am not certain it is worth it unless diesel was much cheaper than gas, which it is not.

Unless of course it was averaging high mpg's. Then it would just balance out in miles.

Even though diesel is 2-4cents more expensive then regular gas we can average more mpg then the gasser passat could. So the price increase isnt a problem.