Try to clean the rotating part off below the pointer. Come straight out from the straight part of the pointer. Can you see what number (or marking) is lined up with the straight part? That is the degrees the crank is at. Line it up where the straight mark is lined up with the line that is at what looks like "TD" (may look like "TO"). That is TDC. Now you want to adjust the chain at the cam spkt where those marks line up.

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Jim

I just retimed a 603 and though I had marked the chain and cam gear before pulling cam (I was pulling the head off), the engine moved (at least 20 degrees) when loosening cam bolt and appeared to have moved when we moved the car around in neutral in the driveway. I was scared sh**less that it might have come off the crank too since there was no tension.

When I put the cam back in I lined up my marks on the chain and gear, and I didn't install the tappets (or followers). Turned out despite the move, the engine was still timed spot on after moving. I verified this by several revolutions by hand. Then installed the tappets and did it again 2 times. I was also worried where the IP was so I used the RIV tester to make sure that was on too. Luckily no movement there either.

So in short what I did was

1. installed cam, no tappets, verified crank and cam
2. remarked chain and cam gear at TDC
3. installed tappets and cam again
4. rotated engine to make sure I wasn't off
5. verified IP timing using RIV tester.

I have a diagram of the internal chain linkages for a 603 so if you need it PM me.

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1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
2007 Pinarello F3:13
1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff)
1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD)

I think my flywheel said 0|T and you can see it count down 40....30.....20.....10.....0|T.....10.....20.....30.

I also marked 0T with a dot of orange paint to make it easier to see coming around.

Maybe spray some brake cleaner on there to clear off any crap that might be hiding the marks

__________________
1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
2007 Pinarello F3:13
1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff)
1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD)

Well, I can see the marks, and the pointer isn't even on any of them. Mine starts at 20 on the left, so I'd estimate that mines at about 35. So I am a long way off of TD. Now the big question, what do I do to get it where it needs to be? Is it as simple as taking it apart and off at the cam gear, rotating the engine, and then putting back on the cam? Also if that is the case, which way do I rotate the engine?

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87 300D - Running on Veggie oil; 260,000 plus miles; Original #14 head

Also, I really want to tell you guys how much I appreciate you all, and this forum. If it wasn't for this forum, I know I would have done permanent damage to this car. I probably would have got the chain back together, and started it to check it, not knowing about the marks on the crank pulley, which considering how far it's off would have more than likely ruined something.

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87 300D - Running on Veggie oil; 260,000 plus miles; Original #14 head

I would not do that. Only rotate the engine with all gears engaged and tensioner providing some level of tension. Mark cam as is. You need to do this to maintain IP timing of some semblance and avoid going 180 degrees off.

You'll need to remove the tappets first (follow the diagram for removing the cam towers in the right order, otherwise you risk cracking camshaft).

Rotate motor back to TDC with all gears engaged (sans tappets, loosen tensioner again and then rotate cam back or forwards to line up marks. You can reinstall tappets at this point (before cam of course), or to be extra careful, tighten up again, an spin 2 times around and make sure marks are lining up.

Put tappets back in, repeat rotations, then IP..well you'll need a tool for that or you can wing it and assume it's still on.

__________________
1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
2007 Pinarello F3:13
1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff)
1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD)

I'm not following something here. Is the mark on the cam lined up and the crank that far off? Did you move the crank after you cut the chain? Did you start the procedure with everything at TDC? Did you turn the crank backwards in relation to normal rotation?

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Jim

I had to go back and read it again. I'm wondering if you need to move the crank to line up with the marks and then adjust the chain to the cam spkt. The chain can actually get "bunched up" down in the bottom end.

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Jim

Yes, it is that far off. And now that I think about it, I think it was like that before too. I didn't know about the markings on the crank pulley, but I remember thinking the plastic things glued to the outer edge of the pulley were the markings, and they are in the same position as before I started the proceedure. Is that even possible?

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87 300D - Running on Veggie oil; 260,000 plus miles; Original #14 head

the EXACT same thing happened to me and I worried the same jumping problem (though maybe not so many degrees). I had marked chain and cam gear at TDC though which saved me some pain in retiming. No jumping off gears though...or it fixed itself.

__________________
1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
2007 Pinarello F3:13
1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff)
1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD)

The only indication at the crank you want to be concerned with is the metal "pointer" that you took a pic of and the markings on the crank. If the cam mark is lined up and you are at 30d+ BTDC then you will not be able to turn the engine over.

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Jim

The thing is that when I moved the crank, I always put it back to where it was before the chain came loose.

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87 300D - Running on Veggie oil; 260,000 plus miles; Original #14 head

Can you turn the engine over by hand?

I've got to go to bed now but will pick back up in the am. Hopefully you will have it resolved by then.

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Jim

That's the wierd thing, it does turn over. I wish I would have known about these marking prior to doing the work. I am thinking that they were the same way before, because those plastic things are in the same position as before, so the marks would have had to been pretty close to the same also. The only thing that I can think of is that when I took the valve cover off, it was obvious that someone had the head off at one point, because there were wear marks on the aluminum above the bolts where a socket had worn it away. I am wondering if someone screwed up something before? But why would it run?? And will it still run if I put it where it needs to be?

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87 300D - Running on Veggie oil; 260,000 plus miles; Original #14 head

did you mark the chain and the gear at TDC before starting the job? I only rotated backwards once because a) not recommended by FSM and b) cam gear was not moving when I had no tension on the chain so was of no use anyway. Marking the chain and gear seem to be the key here..they'll keep lining up even if engine has moved.

I'm around for a little while longer but have a 4 keg party to hit in about 1.5 hours.

__________________
1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
2007 Pinarello F3:13
1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff)
1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD)