OM603: Vacuum pump explosion, bearing intact! Injection Pump Timing device wrecked - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stevo · #31 08-25-2008, 08:54 PM

Dave
So you can no longer get just the bushing? I dont see the bushing for the 616 listed in the "Performance" catalog, but its in the parts catalog I have (1992 edition) P/N#621 052 01 06, dont see one for your engine.

gsxr · #32 08-25-2008, 09:58 PM

Correct. Here is the exploded view of the old style timing device... none of those parts are available any more, you have to buy the complete (new-style) timing device instead. The bushing is one of the internal parts.

gsxr · #33 08-25-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

That is a good plan but the metal that failed on GSXR's VP is the casting which is mostly zinc potmetal and a magnet won't work.

Dave, when I worked at an INDY shop we saw a SDL that the engine was toast ... the failure was due to the same support pieces breaking as did yours, I believe I have a picture of it somewhere. It however was an ugly failure, the pieces locked the timing chain and it blew a rod out the side of the block.

DDH, nice to know I'm not the only one this has happened to, lol. At least I didn't end up with a rod through the block, that woulda been embarassing at the dyno! You're also correct that the VP casting pieces are probably non-magnetic. The shrapnel from the timing device cam should pick up with a magnet though. I probably won't have time to work on this more until the weekend... ordered all the parts today, supposed to arrive Friday if all goes well. Oh joy, this is EXACTLY how I wanted to spend my 3-day weekend! (not!)

JimmyL · #34 08-26-2008, 12:07 AM

Very interesting failure, and super photos!
Uh, why were you having it dyno'd???

gsxr · #35 08-26-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyL

Very interesting failure, and super photos!
Uh, why were you having it dyno'd???

Uh, thanks, I think.

I have longer-term plans to increase the power levels, and I wanted to get a baseline of the current power output so I could compare before & after numbers. A number of people have modified their cars and claimed power gains, but almost nobody has shown any hard data (dyno or dragstrip) to back it up.

Simpler=Better · #36 08-26-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

I have longer-term plans to increase the power levels, and I wanted to get a baseline of the current power output so I could compare before & after numbers. A number of people have modified their cars and claimed power gains, but almost nobody has shown any hard data (dyno or dragstrip) to back it up.

He's not human! The butt-dyno is the accepted method!

gsxr · #37 08-26-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better

He's not human! The butt-dyno is the accepted method!

You probably wouldn't want to see my AP-22 data either, lol...

dieseldiehard · #38 08-26-2008, 06:40 PM

Thats cool but why does HP drop at 90 MPH?
I always wanted to see what a run without and with Redline Catalyst added to the fuel would show

gsxr · #39 08-26-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

Thats cool but why does HP drop at 90 MPH?

You can mostly ignore the HP data from the AP-22, it wasn't set up with the exact vehicle weight at the time - that's why I went to the dyno (see this thread for details). It's possible that at 90mph, the engine is past the 4600rpm power peak but not yet shifted into the next gear, which may explain the drop in power. Next time I use the AP-22, I'll set the weight, and compare those HP readings to the dyno readings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

I always wanted to see what a run without and with Redline Catalyst added to the fuel would show.

Despite the mfr's claims, additives really won't add power by themselves. They may just clean out a dirty system, or help combustion if the engine is less than perfect. (?) But on a good-running engine, additives will do little if anything to make power. A couple percent gain is within the tolerances of the dyno, barely measureable. You can't easily put BTU in a bottle and increase the BTU content per gallon. You need either more fuel injected, or fuel that has a higher BTU content to begin with. Something like this syndiesel should make more power than plain #2, because of the higher BTU content. I think it's more like 10% higher, not the claimed 20%, but anyway.... the cost is insane. I am sorely tempted to try 5 gallons at the dyno & dragstrip after I get my final engine configuration completed (intercooler, etc), just to prove how much is gained with high BTU fuel. I'm a year or three away from that stage though.

Remember that cetane is like octane... once you pass a certain level, adding more does nothing but lighten your wallet.

dieseldiehard · #40 08-27-2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

You can mostly ignore the HP data from the AP-22, it wasn't set up with the exact vehicle weight at the time - that's why I went to the dyno (see this thread for details). It's possible that at 90mph, the engine is past the 4600rpm power peak but not yet shifted into the next gear, which may explain the drop in power. Next time I use the AP-22, I'll set the weight, and compare those HP readings to the dyno readings.

Despite the mfr's claims, additives really won't add power by themselves. They may just clean out a dirty system, or help combustion if the engine is less than perfect. (?) But on a good-running engine, additives will do little if anything to make power. A couple percent gain is within the tolerances of the dyno, barely measureable. You can't easily put BTU in a bottle and increase the BTU content per gallon. You need either more fuel injected, or fuel that has a higher BTU content to begin with. Something like this syndiesel should make more power than plain #2, because of the higher BTU content. I think it's more like 10% higher, not the claimed 20%, but anyway.... the cost is insane. I am sorely tempted to try 5 gallons at the dyno & dragstrip after I get my final engine configuration completed (intercooler, etc), just to prove how much is gained with high BTU fuel. I'm a year or three away from that stage though.

Remember that cetane is like octane... once you pass a certain level, adding more does nothing but lighten your wallet.

OK I found the other thread after posting the previous stuff. Shifting at 4600 RMP, eh really? I've never attempted that, maybe for thrills someday.
Anyhow I agree the HP increase is not within measurable tolerances.
The syndiesel works out to exactly twice the price I am paying for regular Diesel2. Less shipping costs. Not for a daily driver certainly but let us know if there is a formula for distilling regular diesel, I'm sure someone will try an extra cracking process on veggie oil in their garage.

Mjrchode · #41 08-27-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magoo

Belt driven or electric?

Little electric jobber. Slightly larger than a Coke can.

gsxr · #42 08-27-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

OK I found the other thread after posting the previous stuff. Shifting at 4600 RPM, eh really? I've never attempted that, maybe for thrills someday.

No, shifting at 4800-4900rpm. The power peak is at 4600 but then it tapers off to about 5200, and really drops between 5200 and 5400. All 1987 300D/TD's will have full-throttle shifts around 4800rpm or so. The older cars (W123, etc) would usually shift at lower revs, 4000-4600. The newer trannies have different valve body programming.

gsxr · #43 08-27-2008, 11:17 PM

Some new photos (and I replaced a couple of the originals in the first post, with higher quality pics.)

Hatterasguy · #44 08-27-2008, 11:25 PM

What a mess, pulling the pan is going to suck...as you know.

I'd want to clean the pickup on the oil pump after that mess. The screen is probably full of crap.

gsxr · #45 08-27-2008, 11:43 PM

Hatty, I'm not going to pull the main pan... there is precious little shrapnel in there, and it's all small (except for the couple large chunks). There's a lot of fine swarf, gray powder like you find inside a tranny pan. But after wiping the inside of the pan clean, and as much as I can in the timer area, I'm going to have to call it good. I'd have to pull the engine, oil pan, timing cover, etc and literally wash every part down with solvent otherwise. Not gonna happen. I think I'll run fresh dino Delvac for ~200 miles after it's back together as a "flush", and then change oil & filter again. Or something like that.