1985 617 differences - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bricktron · #1 07-30-2011, 01:01 AM

hi all, i have a line on a nice 617 which is the later, i suspect california, model with the trap oxidizer and higher-up turbocharger. my mechanic, who is the seller, told me it's missing the air filter -> turbocharger pipe as well as the turbo's oil inlet tube. i'm sure those are possible to get, and i know about the hoods with heat shields. compared to any other 617, though, what else do i need to know? should i block off the trap oxidizer or what?

sixto · #2 07-30-2011, 02:08 AM

You can't block the trap but you can replace it with a test pipe. You'll have to drum one up yourself as I don't think anyone makes test pipes. Might make more sense to retrofit a non-trap/non-California turbo setup and use the rattle prone air cleaner that takes a more reasonably priced air filter.

IIRC the tach is driven by a sensor on the flywheel rather than the crank pulley and the IP has electronics which are only for emission control.

Sixto
87 300D

charmalu · #3 07-30-2011, 02:23 AM

You can`t block off the trap. the exhaust goes through it first, then through the turbo. It would be like blocking off your muffler.

Some have removed the trap and replaced it with a "Test pipe".

Is this just the engine you are buying or a 85 Cali car? if just the engine, what are you going to use it for?

No filter in the bucket? wonder if someone was driving it w/o a filter? I have seen several in thr JY with no filter. the filter is about $50.

I replaced the intake and exhaust manifolds with a set from a 78 300Sd. that yr had no EGR, then used the federal down pipe and changed the turbo.

might be dificult to find a turbo oil supply line for the cali engine than one for the fed engine. Iam not sure if new oil lines are still available new from the dealer.

With the trap oxidizer installed, the Cali starter is more expensive. the solenoid is mounted on the lower side of the starter, for just this one year.

The down pipe is longer because of the manifolds and turbo sitting higher.

How much is your mechanic asking for it?

SIXTO, the cali engine has no oil drain tube for the oil drain from the air filter housing to the upper pan.

I think Monstercraftsman makes the test pipe.

the electronics for the IP, is a box on the back side. it is a rack positioning sensor, sends a signal to the black box in the pass side kick panel for the EGR. the tach pick up on the adaptor plate also send it`s signal to the black box.

It is still a 617 engine with a bunch of crap bolted on to it.

Charlie

sixto · #4 07-30-2011, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

SIXTO, the cali engine has no oil drain tube for the oil drain from the air filter housing to the upper pan.

Can you loop around the front cover and tee into the dipstick tube?

Sixto
87 300D

charmalu · #5 07-30-2011, 10:09 AM

I haven`t tried it, suppose it could work. But isn`t there a one way valve to keep pressure from coming up into the air cleaner?

My indy mentioned it could be drilled and a tube installed in the pan. Maybe there is a kit for it from MB?

Charlie

sixto · #6 07-30-2011, 11:25 AM

I forgot about the lower pan. It should be easy to make a fitting in the steel lower pan or work a fitting into the aluminum upper pan with the lower pan off.

Sixto
87 300D

Jeremy5848 · #7 07-30-2011, 11:58 AM

You don't need an air filter housing oil drain pipe as oil doesn't accumulate the way it does in Federal engines. The CA-version 617 has a three-way crankcase ventilation hose that sucks most of the oil into the turbo inlet; the line to the air filter housing is just to prevent too much turbo suction from pulling oil out of the engine.

If the trap catalyst is replaced by a test pipe (I did that when I had one of these nice cars) then the Federal starter can be used when a replacement is necessary, thus saving a few dollars. The air filter is indeed more expensive but it doesn't need to be replaced that often as long as you tap/blow it out once in a while. The air cleaner box is much more solidly mounted and has a better "cold air" intake similar to the OM603 in the later W124 cars. I don't know how many square inches of filter surface are provided but it is a very good filter.

With the EGR valve bypassed, disconnected, or removed (for testing purposes only) the EGR electronics (behind the passenger right kick panel) is needed only because the tachometer signal passes through it. All '85s (Federal and California) also have a slightly taller rear end (2.88:1 instead of 3.07:1) for freeway cruising at lower engine RPMs and a different torque converter with a slightly higher stall speed. The California version has a different transmission (722.416) but FSM doesn't say what is different; in operation it is identical to the others.

Jeremy

bricktron · #8 07-30-2011, 12:28 PM

great info guys, thank you. here are the extra details from this job. the job is to drop a 617 into my manual 240d, which has a thrown rod (i know about the machining and balancing required). the fellow that i hope will do the work, who has a reputable shop here in san francisco, offered me this 85 engine (with manifolds, injection, etc. but missing glow plug wiring harness, oil filter housing, and maybe other miscellany) for $1300. i haven't had him run a leakdown test on it with compressed air yet but he describes it as having about 110k miles.

sourcing that test pipe and keeping the EGR elex just to have a tach sound pretty awful. i don't think we have the down pipe either (this is downstream of the exhaust manifold right?). i'm having second thoughts about this engine because of the additional complexities. if we had a whole donor car i guess it would be fine, but finding more than a part or two from 85s sounds challenging. i won't get the benefit of the 2.88 diff. charmalu, maybe you can reflect on how often the 85s pop up in the san jose / moss landing yards? (i am from santa cruz btw.)

bricktron · #9 07-30-2011, 12:32 PM

edit - if you folks know about a good 82-84 617 in the bay area without these additional complexities, let me know.... the $1300 isn't cheap but i thought it was fair for a nice piece. avoiding having to drive around for unusual parts is worth something to me though. i was offered another 617 for under a grand by another fellow but i don't know what kind of due diligence i need to be doing other than having the compressed air leakdown test run.

Dieselkraut23 · #10 07-30-2011, 01:39 PM

make sure an oil cooler is hooked up and then have the motor started til it is warm and have a compression test done before you get the motor or you will have issues with burning/losing oil and so forth.

I have a 617 manual flywheel/drive shaft/shift and linkages now that will be going in a 240TD wagon with a turbo 617. It will be fore sale so if things dont pan out you can sell your car and get the wagon version of it LOL

Good luck with the project.....once your done you will be drooled on by many!

sixto · #11 07-30-2011, 01:39 PM

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/cto/2519421777.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2515184772.html

Don't forget 300CDs, TDs and SDs as engine sources too.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/2518218936.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/2518487539.html

Sixto
87 300D

ROLLGUY · #12 07-30-2011, 09:48 PM

I used an '85 Cali engine in my '82 CD. I changed everything that was different (adapter, injection pump, upper oil pan, intake & exhaust manifolds, starter, turbo etc). It was a lot of work, but entirely worth it to me. I changed all the pan seals while I had it apart and on the engine stand. If you are putting a 617 in your 240, it might be best to get an entire donor car. I may do the same thing, as I am having a hard time finding a replacement engine for my 240 (if I decide not to do the turbo 240 project I was planning).

charmalu · #13 07-31-2011, 01:52 AM

Bricktron> the 85`s come in now and then. I was at Moss Landing today, and only one 123, a 80 300TD.

There was an 85 300D in the Mowery yard about 3 wks back. the very last row.
You can check on www.picknpull.com and check the inventory for 300D`s etc...

I have a set of intake exhaust manifolds if you need them.

The Down pipe bolts to the Turbo, drops down behind the engine. (Header pipe)

If you get rid of the trap, you can still use the Cali starter, and I think you can clock the cali Turbo around to line up. It does have the ARV vacuum thing on it, but will work ok. the box on the rear of the IP isn`t an issue if it isn`t plugged into anything.

Charlie

Jeremy5848 · #14 07-31-2011, 02:03 AM

Depending on how much work you want to do, some folks have used the intake/exhaust manifold from an early turbo 617 (offered first in the 300SD, I believe). It didn't even have an EGR valve, much less a trap cat. As Charlie says, a donor car is the easiest way to go; it's surprising how many parts differences pop up to say "gotcha!" just when you thought you had everything figured out.

Jeremy

bricktron · #15 08-02-2011, 11:23 PM

thank you guy for all the details. i guess i am most worried about needing EGR electronics for the tach. isn't that controller prone to failure and being expensive to replace?

if my mechanic can come up with the missing bits i think i can live with the 85 engine - though if, as i read, hood pads don't help much with noise, but are needed to prevent the 85 turbo from burning the paint - i would rather not have to install a pad. well, life goes on. parts car with black interior should be here tomorrow morning ($750)!