nah, he got it to start, so that's not it...

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Phew - that's good - but where is all that electrickery going? What's getting hot?

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I thought I posted to this thread but apparently not. It was another thread. www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/307078-just-shifter-bushings-nss-faulty-too.html

Is it the same car? Considering what a RPITA pulling the starter is I'd suggest doing some troubleshooting with a wiring diagram and a DVM ffirst to pinpoint the problem before pulling anything. It would suck to end up with the same problem after swapping out to another lifetime Bosch reman.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Seems easy enough, what ever you did to get it not starting, undo.

__________________
83 300TD (need rear wiper assembly dead or alive)
84 300SD Daily driver
85 300TD almost 400k miles and driven daily.
98 E300D *sold
86 300SDL *sold and made flawless 10 hour journey to new home.

I believe all that fry juice got backed up into the starter preventing the flow of electrical juice. Try connecting the fry juice backwards to drain it out.

__________________
1977 300D Lost coolant while someone else was driving
1983 300D Can't run without oil
1985 300SD (gone but not forgotten)
1990 300TE 4matic Sold
1991 Yamaha Venture
1975 Kawsaki 250 triple
1974 Honda 200CL
1951 8N Ford
2008 Wildfire 650C

Hey all,

This is indeed the same car that I replaced the NSS and shifter bushings on.

I verified that when the key is in run position there is current flowing between terminals 1 and 3. This means that the NSS and ignition switch are not faulty - its either the solenoid, the starter motor, or a connection between the two.

Will check connections tonight. I really dont want to pull the starter. But I did write the Wiki article for it, so I will get to see how I did following my own procedure.

Thank you for the help.

dd

PS Army im glad you were wrong. I would have been quite sad if my engine was seized for no apparent reason :-)

__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

Me too - I wouldn't wish that on any one.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Starter cable was a *bit* loose at the starter. Tightened it.

WARNING: before tightening your starter cable disconnect your negative battery cable

BUT - when testing the cable for tightness the two post terminal block on the solenoid spun a bit.

see pic here: PeachParts FastLane Mercedes Parts Store


I don't know the internals of the solenoid/starter very well. Is there any way to tighten?

That also still doesn't address the fact that the starter was consuming power from the battery and not turning when I jumped at the terminal block.

So I will wait and see...and keep my hammer and pipe with me in case. One more no-start condition and out it comes...

__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

You say it is a Bosch reman? By Bosch, do you mean from Bosch in Germany, or a Bosch starter that has been remaned in the US and sold at your local auto parts store? If it was purchased at one of the chain auto parts stores, chances are the parts (solenoid especially) are made in CHINA. These Chinese parts are JUNK! I had a similar problem with a starter from the 'Zone. It said Bosch on it, but the solenoid looked suspiciously CHINsy. Sure enough, I had to replace it a few months later.

__________________

All Diesel Fleet
1985 R107 300SLD TURBODIESEL
2005 E320 CDI (daily)

LOTS of parts for sale!


EGR block kit
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/355250-sale-egr-delete-block-off-plate-kit.html

1985 CA emissions 617 owners- You Need This!
Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit for your 616/ 617 For Sale + Install Inst.

Sanden Instalation Guide (post 11):
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367883-sanden-retrofit-installation-guide.html

Here are a few pictures of the solenoid in bits







I'm not sure if those terminal screws are easy to get to or not...

Attached Thumbnails

     

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

That does not sound well for the starter. As I recall, the nuts for the 2 terminals are 17 mm. It's an electrical connection, not mechanical so should not be torqued as a mechanical which is in the range of 50 ft lbs or so for a 17 mm. Those terminals are molded into plastic and 50 ft lbs will likely twist and "spun" it. The terminals supply power to the motor (think of the terminals as the contacts of a heavy duty relay). If it is not making contact because it has spun, that could be what's happening with yours. Or it still can be a bad key switch, not supplying enough current to the solenoid to pull in in all the way to short out those 2 terminals. If you look at the FSM wiring diagram, the solenoid has 2 coils, a pull-in and hold-in coil. If it does not get enough current to the pull in coil, the 2 terminals will not be shorted out to actuate the hold-in coil.

My suggestion is to measure your solenoid current and compare it to a known good starter motor before pulling it.

Did you replace the NSS and starter motor due to the same symptoms?

Those terminals are behind a crimped housing. No easy way to go in there.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

The started was replaced with a Bosch reman (by Bosch, bough through WorldPac) because the other starter would not retract the starting gear fast enough. This was 20k miles ago. No problems until this since.

The NSS was replaced a few months ago for this same basic issue, except that at that time the NSS seemed faulty - no back up lights. When I went to inspect the NSS it fell apart in my hands.

Ill get a clamp-on current probe. If someone could provide me with a healthy starters draw, that would be helpful - my other benz in in Maine hibernating for the winter so i cant compare now.

__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

Solenoid coil current while cranking

7.3 amps direct to battery + terminal
5.6 amps via key switch

What I did was remove the small phillips screw on the fender terminal block and separated the white and purple wire. With a DVM on 20 amp DC current scale, I connected one lead of the meter to the white wire, the other lead to battery positive. This completes the circuit of the starter solenoid through the ammeter and the engine cranked. Mine measured 7.3 amps.

Leaving the meter lead on the white wire, I connected the other lead to the purple wire and turned the key to start. The engine cranked and I measured 5.3 amps. I believe the extra resistance of the wiring between the NSS, key switch etc caused the lower current. I never have trouble cranking the starter with the key (after I completely disassembled the starter and rebuilt it) so I assume everything is ok in my car.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Anyone want to carry out the procedure below and report the results? It takes only a few minutes and is easy if you have an ammeter. I am curious what your results are, especially the key cranking part. Mine is 5.6 amps, but I have a NSS with 300K miles so may have non ideal contacts. My key switch also has 300K but I did take it apart to clean and lube and it is in pristine condition and providing good contact. It would be interesting to see other numbers.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

1. Is anybody using the Bosch "Starter Relay Kit" (WR1)that allows DIRECT voltage from the Battery to the Starter?
(On the Solenoid Circuit)
2.Army,
Those Solenoid Screw Heads give you some trouble?
(I've had to soak them in "Kroil" for a day or so ,And still use a Teenie Tiny chisel to start them Un-Tightening.)
['Boogered the first set up getting them out,before I remembered the Impact 'Driver in the Boat.]

Attached Thumbnails

     

__________________
'84 300SD sold
124.128