Water Vapor Injection System - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

retmil46 · #1 03-25-2012, 04:44 PM

After reading the thread on cheap water injection, I've got an even cheaper water injection system - actually, water VAPOR injection, that you can feed in prior to the turbo - entirely passive and automatic.

All it is is a 1/2 gallon square clear plastic storage jar with screw-on lid for about a $1.50 at Wally World. I drilled two holes in the lid and attached 1/2" ID hose fittings. One I left open right under the lid, the other I attached a piece of 1/2" hose running to the bottom of the jar, to act as a "bubbler".

I'd already routed the CCV hose from the valve cover thru a Provent CCV filter before it went into the air intake boot ahead of the turbo. I plumbed the bubbler jar into the outlet hose of the Provent, so most of the oil vapor was already stripped out - the outlet of the Provent attached to the inlet of the bubbler jar. The outlet of the bubbler jar was routed over to the air intake boot.

The blow-by gases would go thru the Provent and bubble up thru the jar - either distilled water or W/S washer fluid (aka methanol) - evaporating off the water and carrying the vapor to the inlet of the turbo.

I had this rigged up on my first 87 300D. After a few weeks of this, that engine ran as smooth and quiet at speed as a gasser, and I noticed an improvement in fuel economy as well.

The mention in another thread of using the EGR port as a water injection point gave me an idea - you could install a plate with a throttle valve to control air flow, and a check valve to prevent reverse flow of water - and bleed off a portion of the turbo discharge off the intake and use this to feed the bubbler jar, instead of using the blow-by from the CCV hose, for engines that have little or no blow-by. An advantage to this is the air thats been compressed by the turbo will be heated, and aid in water/methanol evaporation.

One added benefit of running the CCV thru the bubbler jar - whatever oil vapor the Provent didn't strip out, the water in the bubbler jar coalesced out - so you had completely oil-free blowby gases being fed into the turbo intake.

psaboic · #2 03-26-2012, 09:51 AM

Could you post pictures??

ROLLGUY · #3 03-26-2012, 11:25 AM

Interesting idea. Do you have an indication of the amount of water per mile/hour this system is using? I am experimenting with a WI system for my 617 turbo as well, as I have replied here: Water injection again
The only questions I would have is, (1) with your system, is there enough volume of water/vapor to really do anything? (2) will the water vapor damage the turbo compressor wheel (turbine)?

I have always heard that any water/vapor needs to be introduced POST turbo to keep the compressor wheel blades from being "water blasted". Any thoughts from the forum would be appreciated.

Renntag · #4 03-27-2012, 04:55 PM

How is this working long term? Sounds interesting but you can imagine it is easy to be skeptical.

Pictures? more info?

locry · #5 03-27-2012, 08:07 PM

What are the basic conditions required when introducing water in the intake stream? If it were that easy to clean out the chambers why isn't this a regular maintenance procedure? I'd like to know what the required conditions are for me to spray atomized water into the intake. I'd really like to clean out the chambers once in a while.

Minimum RPM? Water volume maximum? Can I use a simple spray bottle for just the cleaning aspect?

Not really interested in a power setup long term install, just the chamber cleaning.

Diesel911 · #6 03-27-2012, 08:35 PM

What you are essential speaking of is a Bubble type Humidifier.

In a medical setting the DRY Oxygen bubbles through Water and the dry gas picks up water as vapor. If the Water is heated it saturates the dry Gas more.

You so called system depends on how much humidity the Air bubbling though it wants to absorb. That cannot be too much more than what you would have on an extremely humid day; so I doubt that it is really that much Water.
As the other member indicated you should be able to tell by measuring how much water is being used up per mile.

As long as the Water remains a Vapor it is not going to cause an issue with the Turbo Charger.

Also while the Crank Case Vent Oil mist is messy where it deposits what makes it into the Cylinders/Combustion Chamber is burned as Fuel and that helps a tiny bit with economy.

I forgot to mention that in a Medical setting the Humidifier is used because the Oxygen is Dry so as not to dry out the Patients Airways.
It is easy to assume that any sort of Spray/Injected Water System can easily put out more water than the type of system you suggest.

psaboic · #7 03-27-2012, 11:06 PM

I just wish someone would/could post a simple how-to (even better with pictures) of an easy way to do water vapor injection on a OM617 with a turbo. I would really like to do this.

ROLLGUY · #8 03-27-2012, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psaboic

I just wish someone would/could post a simple how-to (even better with pictures) of an easy way to do water vapor injection on a OM617 with a turbo. I would really like to do this.

Have you looked at your own thread? Water injection again

psaboic · #9 03-28-2012, 12:29 AM

Yes, I have. I guess I was just hoping that there was an easier way to do it outside of messing with the EGR and getting a plate machined, etc......That way looks like it would work very well, I was just wondering if there was anything even more simple that would work well

Diesel911 · #10 03-28-2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psaboic

I just wish someone would/could post a simple how-to (even better with pictures) of an easy way to do water vapor injection on a OM617 with a turbo. I would really like to do this.

I think what you want is some sort of Bolt on setup.
In order for something like that to be available there would have to be enough demand for someone to manufacture it.

So you are left with haveing to do the coustom work yourself.

Have you given any thought so using simething like a Glow Plug to Boil the Water (Exhaust Manifold as a source of heat???); in an Aluminum or Steel container? That is one way you can get more Water into the Air and I do not think Steam will damage the Turbo Blades.
However, a Glow Plug Boiling Water can only do so at a certain rate. That means at low speeds and idle you will be pullinging in more Steam than at higher speeds/Air Flow Rates.

thedantec · #11 06-05-2012, 10:16 PM

my last thought about how to get water vapor into my high pressure intake was to drip water from tank to copper tubbing rapped around exhaste pipe. if you had a temp reader , place tubbing where the pipe reaches boiling point the quickest and is easy to rap tubeing. ( shoot ,,,, i just had a idea while typing) try to get steam to reenter the water tank with second tube from heat coil bubbling the water in tank and exiting the top of tank as hot vapor and entering the suck side of turbo. if the steam vapor needs to enter the pressure side of turbo , use a small air tank that cam handle pressure a little higher than your turbo puts out. sorry ... but i ramble sometimes. im making a diesel vapor injection for my semi truck .

Diesel911 · #12 06-05-2012, 10:33 PM

Any place on the Exhaust Manifold will get above the boiling point of Water.

Diesel911 · #13 06-05-2012, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedantec

my last thought about how to get water vapor into my high pressure intake was to drip water from tank to copper tubbing rapped around exhaste pipe. if you had a temp reader , place tubbing where the pipe reaches boiling point the quickest and is easy to rap tubeing. ( shoot ,,,, i just had a idea while typing) try to get steam to reenter the water tank with second tube from heat coil bubbling the water in tank and exiting the top of tank as hot vapor and entering the suck side of turbo. if the steam vapor needs to enter the pressure side of turbo , use a small air tank that cam handle pressure a little higher than your turbo puts out. sorry ... but i ramble sometimes. im making a diesel vapor injection for my semi truck .

Then you have Air Pressure from the Pneumatic Brake System.

eatont9999 · #14 08-24-2012, 02:07 PM

Is misting really that big of a problem pre-turbo? If the mist is fine enough, I don't see how it would hurt the turbo unless a drop of water was ingested.

I'm investigating water injection for the sole purpose of the cleansing effects.