btw ... i had to replace the front wheel bearing when i replaced the front brake rotor ... how tight is that bolt that holds it on supposed to be .. anyone know ????

Thanks for all the help and concern guys, i didnt go postal ..... yet but i'm getting there ... i agree with other guy, there are LOTS of things i would rather do than this " project " again....... between work and finding time to do this " project " ( anybody got some dynamite ... just today i finally got the oilpump out although my method may be a little unorthodox ...

hopefully this will gives others some hope when faced with this situation ... just to set the " records " straight ...

1. YES you can remove the front timing cover WITHOUT removing the head ...there are 2 bolts inside head on the front you need to remove and comes off alright ...

i figured i would remove it since most of the stuff was already removed from doing water pump and front seal .....

i didnt have to lift the motor to " drop " the oilpan enuf to get the oilpump out ... if your a contortionist you'll be able to remove the three lox bolts with a # 40 lox socket and 3/8 ratchet ....

i figured lifting the motor was a last resort ... looked to intimidating to me .....

i did end up pulling the oil pump out the front of the engine NOT thru the inspection cover ....


now if i can only remember where all the parts go back and not have anything left over when i'm done ( in this lifetime ) i should be fine LOL

updat ..... need help diagnosing problem, i know it's been a while, ( i have a life & work sucking up my time ) finally got it together .... but now after i started it, does not sound good @ all .... something seriously wrong me thinks .... it smokes black smoke real bad, hardly any power, feels like it's working too hard, sounds just like when a diesel is cold ONLY much louder as if something is grinding / rubbing .... ..... this is weird becuz before i fixed it ..it ran so quite you hardly knew it was a diesel ( except when it was cold ) any ideas ( other than the obvious to tear it apart which i dont have the time, $ or skill to rebuild it ..... ) go figure ...

i didnt want to run it toooooo long and shut it off ... what the ????

the timing chain was not broken, "only" the oil pump chain that had somehow wrapped itself around the crankshaft stopping thr motor dead in it's tracks

it runs somewhat smooth considering it is rattling so loud like a cold diesel ...any ideas guys ...what to look for etc ???? if i took the valve cover off and removed the lifters would that tell me anything .....


if the timing was out ...the chain would have to broke or jumped ... but it was tight with almost no play @ all ...

Let us know what town you live in. Hopefully a member will live nearby and be able to come over to help diagnose it.

__________________
Greg
2012 S350 BlueTEC 4Matic
2007 ML 320 CDI
2007 Leisure Travel Serenity
2006 Sprinter 432k
2005 E320 CDI
1998 SLK230 (teal)
1998 SLK230 (silver)
1996 E300D 99k, 30k on WVO
Previous:
1983 240D, on WVO
1982 300D, on WVO
1983 300CD, on WVO
1986 300SDL 237k, 25k on WVO (Deerslayer)
1991 350SDL 249k, 56k on WVO - Retired to a car spa in Phoenix
1983 380 SEC w/603 diesel, 8k on WVO
1996 E300D 351k, 177k on WVO

i appreciate the offer but i'm kinda in the boonies so probably too far away unfortunately ... so i finally twisted the arm of a local heavy duty diesel truck mechanic that's been doing diesels forever it seems, to come and to check it out / listen to it " run " he said "it sounds to me like the timing is out by about 1 step / click or more .... that's why all the black smoke too much fuel coming in .... but since he is not familiar with mercedes diesels he wasnt sure how to reset the timing ..... and if i could find someone that knows how to adjust the timing he could maybe help me figure it out ...

funny thing is the timing chain never broke .. in fact there is hardly any slack @ all ... how could it " slip " can someone give me some ideas on how to adjust the timing .... is there a way to do it without having to take it all apart ....... again ... can't we just adjust the bosch pump or something .....

thanks in advance ......

Before doing anything like that you should do a search for the 603 start of delivery timing and using the marks on the harmonic balancer and the indicator in the IP try to verify if your are or are not timed for SOD at the spec'd 15 degrees ATDC. If you determine that spec is off then you can start thinking about retiming, but if that spec is on target then you have something else going on..

could u translate that into english for me huh ??? i'm not familiar with those acronyms pls enlighten me .... and NO ...i'm not totally newbie but not familiar with those terms .. i assume if i told my diesel mechanic what u just said he would know right ???

When you changed the oil pump chain. Was there a reason it broke? I do not know how the sprocket is affixed to the crank or if it is a double sprocket.

That is if the paired sprocket serves the timing chain and the oil pump chain. What I am driving at is if the timing is off now and it very well might be. I would suspect some kind of change occured at the crank sprocket. I inagine the lower sprocket has a keyway? Or could something have gotten in there and jumped the chain?

Anyways when you check the timing find out just exactly how many degrees it is off and post it on this thread. This may indicate what happened.

Also before that have a look to see if the cam mark and the harmonic balancer mark are where they should be. If anything like what I am mentioning occured it should have affected the cam timing as well. This could easily account for your symptoms. If both cam and injection pump timing are displaced some. You did not have the timing chain off did you?

Do not take this engine above an idle as you currently may only be saving major grief because you have hydralic lifters. In fact do not run it at all until you check especially the cam timing and then the injection pump timing. Do not ignore checking that cam timing. It is what can cause serious damage. The injection pump is not capable of creating damage. Your excess noise may be the valves hitting.

[QUOTE=barry12345;3064469]When you changed the oil pump chain. Was there a reason it broke? I do not know how the sprocket is affixed to the crank or if it is a double sprocket.

That is if the paired sprocket serves the timing chain and the oil pump chain. What I am driving at is if the timing is off now and it very well might be. I would suspect some kind of change occured at the crank sprocket. I inagine the lower sprocket has a keyway? Or could something have gotten in there and jumped the chain?


yes it had a keyway that fell out and possibly may have jammed something note 100 % sure but ????
frankly it's kinda straightforward setup ... dual roller timing chain setup with a gear in front part of the crankshaft of it for the oil pump chain which runs the oil pump ... below it ..... i dont really know, the oil pump was stiff and worn, i'm thinking maybe the key fell out and jammed the chain and broke the master link ... just my 2 cents ... it was in btm of oilpan and kinda chewed up a bit .... but timing chain never came off and frankly i was surprised @ how tight it was ...barely any play so frankly cant see how it was even possible to slip or jump ... but anything is possible ????

DO YOU HAVE the FSM for your Mercedes ? (Factory Service Manual)

Available at:
http://epc.startekinfo.com/

ACCESS through the USA Mercedes Electronic Parts Catalog site:

EPC-net Online

[They (Mercedes USA,through their site "Manipulator" "Snap On Business Solutions")
will ask for a U.S. based credit card # to prove that you're their
customer,BUT there's no charge for the service to your C.C.]

__________________________________________________________________

"If you've suffered an Oil Pump Failure (OR an Oil Pump Chain Drive System
Failure) JUST REPAIRING THE PROBLEM MAY NOT BE A PERMANENT FIX !!!!"


"Solved the Failure,NOT THE CAUSE!!!"

__________________
'84 300SD sold
124.128

I don't know your diesel mechanic so I couldn't comment on what he'd know or not know!

ATDC - after top dead center
SOD - start of delivery
IP - injection pump

You and he think that the engine's timing is off, the basic timing specification is start of delivery and the specification for thst engine is the injection pump's internal indicator blade centered in its opening with pointer reading 15 degrees after top dead center on the harmonic balancer's markings.

You can do a search of the forum using the terms "603, Start of Delivery, Timing" or similar terms and you should be able to find a couple threads that talk about and describe the process and the particulars involved. Someone has suggested the available online Factory Service Manual the recommended procedure and details are outlined in that reference, if you take the time to investigate those information sources you would be in a better position to assist your diesel mechanic in figuring out the nature and extent of your problem and what you can do to remedy it.

Somwhere under the Hood is an Emission Sticker with the timing for your Car.
Rotate your Engine in the direction of rotation and you come up on the Compression Stroke, go past OT (TDC, Top Dead Center) and line the Crankshaft Damper up on the Timing Degrees on your Emission Sticker.

We will pretend that that is 15 Degree ATDC (After Top Dead Center).

There is a Plug on the Governor Housing you are going to remove (Oil will come out). Look in side the hole and see if you can see a Screwdriver Blade type projection centered in the Hole. See Pics

If it is way off center your Timing is off.

Attached Thumbnails

   

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Assuming that the pointer attached to the timing cover which has been just previously removed and reinstalled, actually accurately indicates anything!

thanks for the great replies guys .... it has helped me greatly .... i love the detailed explanation ... i was really feeling overwhelmed ... what to do next ..... i really was kinda @ a loss what to do ..... but after mulling over & thinking over the detailed comments i can start to see the " light @ the end of the tunnel wheeeeeeeew " kind of a combo of a doooooooooh moment / light goes on it makes sense now how the timing could really be out / jumped even tho it looks tight ... dooooooh yeah that's why its called a chain tensioner right .. hehehe i never thought about the " effect " just gotta take some time and figure out my game plan here .... check out some of the things you mentioned .... working in a non-insulated garage @ 20 below isnt exactly any fun .... ooh well i'll let u know what i come up with ....

sorry for another dumb question ( i know this may be a dooh moment but i just had to ask b4 i go out in the garage to freeze my butt off , instead of fumbling around out there .....
1. but where is that hole your talking about on the governor housing ...
2. maybe i'm blind or ..... butmost of the discussion .... ( i know u have to start somewhere ) seems to deal with checking the timing ...but once i do find out ... how to i adjust it ....

thanks in advance ...

My guess is that if the injection pump timing is off in your case so will the cam timing be as well. First step is to find out if the timing is off. Probably correct the cam timing sprocket. Then pull the pump and lock it for reinstallation When everything else is ready. You may have to get the locking tool from our tool program. In a way your set up for the injection pump is an improvement on the earlier models.

Not a dumb question at all by the way. The pictures shown on other threads of your post and the archives hopefully will help you identify the timing port. I do not own an injection pump of your type.