MB 616 diesel powered Astro build - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JB3 · #1 04-13-2013, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Why bother with any of the stuff on top of the rocker cover? Why not connect straight to the IP - I'm guessing you're going to install an automatic transmission...

...fast idle could be rigged directly to the IP too just put a spring at that connection so that the fast idle knob can't yank the cable too far at WOT

you have guessed in error sir.

This swap is using a non WC T5 5-speed overdrive.

To your other comment, thats not a bad idea. Either way, I need some kind of fixed point to pull on the throttle lever of the injection pump, but this gives me an interesting idea. If I change the angle of that square hole so its facing down and remove all the plungers and whatnot, I might be able to connect the astro cable directly to the injection pump, the distance seems similar. Ill have to test it

ROLLGUY · #2 04-14-2013, 01:48 AM

If you were to remove the stainless steel flex pipe between the turbo and the down pipe mounting flange (use one of the clamps to hold both halves together), it should give you enough clearance for the stock down pipe. You will need to modify the bracket, but I am sure you can handle that...Rich

ROLLGUY · #3 04-14-2013, 02:05 AM

I like how you modified the manifolds to work with the 4 cylinder. One of my projects was going to be a 616 turbo 240D. I was planning to use 617 turbo pistons and rods, and somehow make the piston oilers work as well. I was also researching how to add the extra fuel (616 IP not made for a turbo), and I think an ALDA can be added in place of the ADA. I have not found anyone that has tried it, but maybe that will be you! The other option would be to use the back half of the 617 pump with the front of the 616. That would involve the services of an IP shop, and would probably be expensive. You will also need a turbo oil filter stand, and the oil feed tube. The turbo oil drain tube will be a challenge as well. You could just drill and tap pipe threads in the upper pan for a barbed fitting, and just use a rubber hose with hose clamps. I am sure you are not the first to try this, so you probably already have thought about all this anyway. The turboing (is that a word?) of a 616 could be an entire thread by itself, as there is much information to be shared and had on just that part of your project alone. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep the photos coming as well (we like photos!)...Rich

Stretch · #4 04-14-2013, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I like how you modified the manifolds to work with the 4 cylinder. One of my projects was going to be a 616 turbo 240D. I was planning to use 617 turbo pistons and rods, and somehow make the piston oilers work as well. I was also researching how to add the extra fuel (616 IP not made for a turbo), and I think an ALDA can be added in place of the ADA. I have not found anyone that has tried it, but maybe that will be you! The other option would be to use the back half of the 617 pump with the front of the 616. That would involve the services of an IP shop, and would probably be expensive. You will also need a turbo oil filter stand, and the oil feed tube. The turbo oil drain tube will be a challenge as well. You could just drill and tap pipe threads in the upper pan for a barbed fitting, and just use a rubber hose with hose clamps. I am sure you are not the first to try this, so you probably already have thought about all this anyway. The turboing (is that a word?) of a 616 could be an entire thread by itself, as there is much information to be shared and had on just that part of your project alone. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep the photos coming as well (we like photos!)...Rich

Do you know that AMG made a turbo OM616?

Once and for all the answer to the did AMG do diesels for the w123 - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum

JB3 · #5 04-17-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I like how you modified the manifolds to work with the 4 cylinder. One of my projects was going to be a 616 turbo 240D. I was planning to use 617 turbo pistons and rods, and somehow make the piston oilers work as well. I was also researching how to add the extra fuel (616 IP not made for a turbo), and I think an ALDA can be added in place of the ADA. I have not found anyone that has tried it, but maybe that will be you! The other option would be to use the back half of the 617 pump with the front of the 616. That would involve the services of an IP shop, and would probably be expensive. You will also need a turbo oil filter stand, and the oil feed tube. The turbo oil drain tube will be a challenge as well. You could just drill and tap pipe threads in the upper pan for a barbed fitting, and just use a rubber hose with hose clamps. I am sure you are not the first to try this, so you probably already have thought about all this anyway. The turboing (is that a word?) of a 616 could be an entire thread by itself, as there is much information to be shared and had on just that part of your project alone. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep the photos coming as well (we like photos!)...Rich

I did grab a ALDA to possibly replace my ADA on the 616 pump, im sort of playing that by ear. Ive been observing closely threads by OM616, 47dodge, and purplecomputer who have all turbo charged the 616. It seems like it holds up decently.

originally, I grabbed the back plate off a 617 turbo oil filter housing, drain pipe, and feed to resolve turbo oiling with the stock 616 oil filter housing, BUT, I had to remove that to fit the transmission adapter, so now its a remote head.

I found a remote filter head from Moroso for racing stuff that has a 1/4 inch outlet from the filter head, so ill be running that to the turbo oil feed. Placement of that I still haven't worked out, but it has to be as close as possible.

As far as longevity, im going to be interested to see how impacted that might be. From the people have turbo charged their engines, it seems like its really not that big a deal, BUT, I don't think anyone has a million miles on one out there, so it may in fact result in reduced engine life. I will see, this motor has about 220K on it. Im basing my feeling on just how overbuilt these engines seem to be. Ive seen so many gas motors with half the construction and reinforcement of the 616 that are turbocharged. ill just have to see

JB3 · #6 04-17-2013, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

If you were to remove the stainless steel flex pipe between the turbo and the down pipe mounting flange (use one of the clamps to hold both halves together), it should give you enough clearance for the stock down pipe. You will need to modify the bracket, but I am sure you can handle that...Rich

You and deliveryvalve both had the same notion, definitely works! Makes plenty of room. I need to rig something up, looking for 45% pipe to make a custom down pipe. Pic below (soon)

daw_two · #7 04-17-2013, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

You and deliveryvalve both had the same notion, definitely works! Makes plenty of room. I need to rig something up, looking for 45% pipe to make a custom down pipe. Pic below (soon)

There's been suppliers mentioned over on the 4BT swaps website. I reused the original downpipe on my 4BT swap and had the exhaust pipe welded to it.

I saw your swap documented over there on the 4BT website. Nice.

Stretch · #8 04-14-2013, 01:58 AM

Sorry I meant to say NOT installing an automatic - that was in my head anyway even though I didn't write it...

The only reason I can think of having the stuff on the rocker cover is for an automatic transmission - vacuum valve connection and Bowden cable / rod linkage etc

####

How about using the back plate of the governor as a mounting point for a 1mm thick custom made mounting bracket for the new linkage? Slightly longer screws - through the new bracket - through the existing back cover (don't remove!) - into the governor housing. You should have enough space between the oil filter housing and the IP / governor on an OM616. It shouldn't be as cramped as on the turbo OM617...

JB3 · #9 04-17-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Sorry I meant to say NOT installing an automatic - that was in my head anyway even though I didn't write it...

The only reason I can think of having the stuff on the rocker cover is for an automatic transmission - vacuum valve connection and Bowden cable / rod linkage etc

####

How about using the back plate of the governor as a mounting point for a 1mm thick custom made mounting bracket for the new linkage? Slightly longer screws - through the new bracket - through the existing back cover (don't remove!) - into the governor housing. You should have enough space between the oil filter housing and the IP / governor on an OM616. It shouldn't be as cramped as on the turbo OM617...

Another awesome idea, Ill look into this. The astro throttle comes in from the passenger side of the engine area, and I may have a reference problem with the hatch going direct back, but maybe if I did a 45 degree pointing over to the valve cover, It would fit nicely!

JB3 · #10 05-08-2013, 04:09 PM

tiny update-

bunch of little things taken care of, power steering hoses hooked up, a few other items, waiting on a oil filter gasket for my new oil filter relocation plate, however, one big hurdle passed-

this morning I went down to the DMV and put in paperwork re-registering the van as a 4 cyl diesel vehicle.
Total success! Woman didn't even bat an eye, and now its legal and registered with the engine swap! now to get it running

Stretch · #11 05-09-2013, 03:32 AM

Congratulations - getting the paperwork done is always a big boost!

JB3 · #12 05-11-2013, 04:55 PM

so I have an idea ill see what you all have to say as far as performance-

If I removed the MB power steering pump and related bracket, I would open up some serious room right there, and I also have been looking at prices, and the stock 89 astro power steering pump with reservoir is a staggeringly cheap 30-50 bucks, and stock lines are about 15-20, AND have the ornerous bump fittings already done up for the high pressure side.

My plan is to take the Mercedes pump off, remove the V-pulley, and mount it to the Astro pump, mounting the astro approximately where it was on the stock application, which is where the A/C compressor would be on the 616 If I were including it. Then I can use stock lines and pump for the life of the vehicle

the only problem is pulley size issues-

These are numbers taken from an 89 astro 4.3 V6, approximately the crank pulley is 7 and 3/4 inches, and the

power steering pulley is 6 and 1/4 inches.

on the 616, approximately the crank pulley is 4.5 inches, and the power steering pulley is 5.5 inches

Im figuring this using this formula- Ratio = (Radius of Driven Pulley) / (Radius of Drive Pulley)
so for the astro pulley formula it looks like- Ratio = (3.125) / (3.875), getting me a .81-1 ratio for stock astro
for the 616 engine, the formula looks like- Ratio = (2.75) / (2.25), getting me a 1.22-1 ratio.

HOWEVER, if I mount the astro power steering pump lowish and use the crank pulley that formerly drove the A/C compressor, I can alter the ratios to a much closer .92-1.

What im trying to determine is what id end up doing to steering performance increasing the pulley pump speed by about 10%, and if it matters. any opinions?

ROLLGUY · #13 05-12-2013, 12:46 AM

I may have a hard time expressing my thoughts on this one, so bare with me. I believe (although I could be wrong) the overall RPM range of the Diesel would be different than the 4.3 was (slower idle and top RPM). That being said, I doubt the difference in PS pump final drive ratio from the GM to the Benz will have a noticeable effect on performance. Is the PS pump also for the power brakes (hydroboost)? That might change the whole equation. However, I am sure that torque will not be a problem at idle to run the accessories. Again, please correct me if I am wrong on any of this (just thinking out loud)....Rich

Austin85 · #14 05-12-2013, 01:59 AM

Beautiful work... but why an Astro Van??

Couldn't you find one of these --->>

JB3 · #15 05-16-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin85

Beautiful work... but why an Astro Van??

Couldn't you find one of these --->>

lol, I looked at one for a temp van while I was working on this project. They are also cool blocky vans with a good following, but I do love me the astro, and I found the forum support community to be more extensive. They are very similar though