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My catatonic auto transmission wakes up... sort of
Last year I had a thread going concerning (my own) used w123 240d transmission I swapped into my 1980 300td. The tranny had worked great in my 240d, but it had sat for about four years before it went into the TD.
The original trans was a vacuum-only unit, as was the one from the 1983 240d. If I recall correctly now, the original was a .118, the 'new' one is I believe a .117. Long story short, once we got it into the wagon, it wouldn't shift into second. It would wind up in first and stay in gear (at least up to my tolerance point in terms of RPMs) unless you backed off the pedal... at which point it would slip into nothing. It would 'catch' into first again if you slowed down almost to a stop. I changed the vacuum pump diaphragm to bring the vacuum up to proper levels. No change. I installed a new crossover valve on the valve cover (the white three-way valve). No change. I tried draining and refilling the fluid, and playing with the vaccuum modulator adjustment. Also completely disconnected the kickdown switch. No change at all. I tried driving it for short hops though the summer, still no change. In the fall as a last resort I poured a bottle of SeaFoam into the trans, drove it a little, then parked it for the winter. No change this spring. Other things had my attention all year, so the car only got back onto my radar last week. However, one thing did change: the car had been stored at my mechanic's lot, where I only had limited scope to drive it (stuck in 1st) due to traffic. Last week I towed it home, where I am able to drive it further at a time without fear of police attention. Today I pulled the dipstick and realized that it was still way over full, from the SeaFoam. I slapped my head for having left it overfull all this time, and drained about 1.5 quarts -- then drove the car again. NOW I HAVE SECOND, but nothing more. First holds very, very high, until just about the single dot on the speedo (so nearly 25 mph). I've tried to get it just about to the two dots, but no signs of upshift beyond second. What do I do now? Remember, this is a vacuum-only-control transmission. No Bowden cable, no throttle position lever. I am inclined to add a little fluid (I overdrained a bit) and try adjusting the modulator....
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Mac 2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d “Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 Last edited by Zacharias; 10-20-2012 at 06:47 PM. |
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You haven't described if the vacuum system works: have you done vacuum measurements? It should have full vacuum (22" Hg) going to the transmission at idle, drop to about 10–11" Hg once the switchover valve is actuated and drop to 0 vacuum at full load.
Vacuum modulator should hold vacuum. BUT: even if you disconnect the vacuum line on a vacuum-only transmission, the transmission should shift—albeit only at the highest possible shift points—if it is in good working order. Same applies to the kickdown solenoid/switch. Your transmission doesn't shift at all from the first or second gear, that indicates something is wrong inside. Putting a 240D transmission into a 300TD isn't adviseable, the transmission is adjusted to a specific engine, although I wouldn't expect that the transmission wouldn't shift at all because of that. Have you changed the oil and filter? What is the colour and smell of the oil? Could be a problem with the B1 piston. You can check the pin of the modulator too, it can break and cause problems. Have you installed the torque converter correctly? |
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I didn't watch him do it, but he certainly does know how it should be done.
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Mac 2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d “Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
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Did you do the adjustment with a pressure gauge connected to the transmission? You can check three pressures (working pressure, governor pressure, modulation pressure) to see what is going on inside the transmission. |
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Those threads (and your problem) along with the teachings of Yoda Govert have lead me to believe in measurements. Those threads (and other threads started by others since that time) demonstrate to me that it could be this - it could be that - it could be the other - it could be lots of things but nothing is certain with out a measurement. Measurements are everything with 722.0 <=> 722.4 transmission problems - adjustment without measurement appears to be very hit and miss. You can't disregard the chance of good luck but you can't rely on it either. ################################## Scrub out all that I've said about your problem to date! ################################## Do yourself a favour - drain the transmission and the torque converter and measure out with great care the correct amount of fluid - the refill the transmission. Then get some gauges and make some hydraulic and vacuum measurements I'll post up some pressure data - you've now got a 722.117 fitted right?
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
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That's been my hunch all along, given that I knew the history of the unit. That is also (in part) why I've left it so long, while I tried driving and snake oil, rather than install another one -- which is almost impossible to find around here... only source wants $900(!) for a used one. I know someone who runs a small VW diesel shop and buys rusty old Mercedes to part them out, but everything he has right now is w126s (or another 240d trans, which I'd like to avoid now doing a second time).
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However, if it were in L I would only have 1st, and in S I would have 3rd as well, wouldn't I? Quote:
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Thanks for all the input, by the way. This transmission peformed very well in the 240d, so I'd like to save it if I can.
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Mac 2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d “Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
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No hurry on this. I have time to drive it right now, but that's probably going to be it for now as we have the Canadian winter temps coming upon us here very soon and I have arthritis... and work outside. Can't be crawling under a car on cold ground... worked ten years ago, but now I'm 52 and it's right out. The timing is very irritating... I wish it had decided to start to rebirth itself in July. The LAST thing I now want to do is park it for the winter with the problem one-third resolved. By way of explanation, I was doing something else yesterday on the other car and wanted a break... so I figured I'd take the TD for a spin. Apart from my extracting some fluid, nothing was different than many other days when I took the car out. I am kicking myself that I didn't pull the extra fluid out earlier, however....
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Mac 2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d “Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
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Fluid level and data
I'm concerned that the fluid level isn't correct - that's why I say to drain and then refill it.
Here's the pressure data => Please note this is specifically for USA destination transmissions...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
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In S you would indeed have third gear as well, and the shifting would be normal. Quote:
Before screwing it into the transmission, the pin/plunger should be attached to the modulator. The plunger should be glued to the modulator, so that it follows the movements of the modulator because of the variable vacuum. |
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The gearbox is a 1983 722.117, so this data may not be applicable.
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We need WIS I guess...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
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The 722.117 was used up to July 1983 in the 240D and to end of production in the USA. From July 1983 the 722.404 was used in the 240D, but not in the USA.
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#13
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And where do you get the production data for these situations?
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#14
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By the production data I guess you mean the changeover year. It can be found in the German WIS in the information about the 722.3 and 722.4 transmission in the chapter "Einbauübersicht" (or similar). It can also be found here: Kategorie:W123 in the Getriebe section. |
#15
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Thanks Govert - I'll post up the general data as well for Zacharias later on today (after I've wound up Windows in the VM again)
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
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