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  #1  
Old 07-24-2014, 01:02 AM
bkc bkc is offline
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r129 diesel conversion

I've been hesitant to post about my project here, as it moves in spurts. But, now that it is moving along more significantly, here we go. Besides, I may need help!

Anyway, quick summary:
=== donor car
1993 300D 2.5L Turbo w124.128 (wrecked by Domino's driver)
OM602.962 turbo diesel 5cyl motor
722.418 tranny

=== project car
1991 300SL-24 r129.061
m104.981 motor
722.500 tranny
instrument cluster was upgraded by previous owner to the newer, digital panel, in case that matters


(The r129 with my lovely and project-supportive wife!)

=== the plan
remove m104, keep 722.500
install om602

=== current status
* I've pulled the motors and trannies, and am working on figuring out all the wiring and such. Two years ago I didn't know what a socket wrench was, so I've learned a lot along the way (am currently semi-apprenticing at a local shop).

* My local shop is scheduled to do the physical alterations for the motor and tranny to fit, sublet the fuel tank reseal, and alter/replace the propeller shaft and exhaust, starting next week sometime.

=== questions so far
* Will the 722.500 tranny work fine with the om602? They have the same bell housing and bolt pattern, so they physically fit. The 722.500 torque converter has a larger pump bore on the tranny side, but otherwise seems identical to the 722.418 (at least from the outside). Can I just plug the vacuum line from the om602 injector pump in where the vacuum line from the m104 went on the .500 tranny?

* How do I get the HGS (TCM) working with om602/EDS output? Is the diesel speed sensor (144/rotation) signal to/from the EDS compatible with what the HGS/TCM wants? What do I use to indicate engine load to the HGS?

* Is the weight/balance going to be fine with the tranny about 4 inches forward of original? (om602 is shorter, but nearly fits existing mount locations by being about the same place from the front as the m104) I know this will require moving the tranny mount stuff.

* Will be modifying the engine mounts crossmember, as the om602 sits too high and doesn't *quite* fit the existing mount points, hopefully won't have to modify too much else physically besides that and the tranny mount.

* Will any particular diesel mesh filter fit the r129 tank? Seems like any of them should?

* I'm planning to have the fuel tank cleaned and "resealed" to deal with the galvanization concerns

* Still trying to identify various wires that don't seem to match the manuals and ETM diagrams (e.g. a thick black-red with white spots wire). I want to make sure I remove/cap unnecessary wires, but not lose ones I need to keep or repurpose.

* The preglow system seems pretty straightforward to integrate into the starter circuit. But, how can I add the vacuum valve to stop the motor? Would prefer a mechanical method, like the w124, so the motor will keep running even if the electrical system fails (saved my butt in the w124 shortly after we originally bought it)

I have the manuals for w124, r129, and w140, plus WIS. I also have access to Mitchell's OnDemand5. My local shop is not expert in Mercedes, more American and Asian cars. They do handle major projects though and have a machine shop for fabrication.

Thanks for any advice or even just moral support!

-bkc (Lynnwood, WA)

Attached Thumbnails
r129 diesel conversion-image.jpg  
__________________
Current stable:
1976 240D [W115.117/616.916] (acq 11Jun76)
1990 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (acq 4Sep15)
1991 SL250d (ex-300SL-24) [R129.061/OM602.962/722.6, was M104.981] (acq 25May12, converted to diesel)
1993 Jeep Cherokee [XJ] (acq 12Apr14)
1999 SLK23 AMG Sport [R170.447] (acq 12May21)
2007 E320 Bluetec/CDI [W211.022/642.920] (acq 10Oct18)

-- Deceased...
1993 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled by Dominos driver 28Mar12)

Last edited by vstech; 07-24-2014 at 06:04 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:18 AM
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,600
Awesome project, beautiful wife. Looking forward to hearing/reading how it comes together.

In my (completely different) conversion, I bypassed the stock gasoline filter entirely and used the factory diesel filtering.

I used an EGR vacuum solenoid from the original gas engine to switch vacuum and shut off the engine.
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:29 AM
winmutt's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc View Post

* My local shop is scheduled to do the physical alterations for the motor and tranny to fit, sublet the fuel tank reseal, and alter/replace the propeller shaft and exhaust, starting next week sometime.
Why? You should be able to do this with all stock parts.

Quote:
=== questions so far
* Will the 722.500 tranny work fine with the om602? They have the same bell housing and bolt pattern, so they physically fit. The 722.500 torque converter has a larger pump bore on the tranny side, but otherwise seems identical to the 722.418 (at least from the outside). Can I just plug the vacuum line from the om602 injector pump in where the vacuum line from the m104 went on the .500 tranny?

* How do I get the HGS (TCM) working with om602/EDS output? Is the diesel speed sensor (144/rotation) signal to/from the EDS compatible with what the HGS/TCM wants? What do I use to indicate engine load to the HGS?
Why wouldnt you keep the 602 eng and trans together? You will need to swap EDS over.
Quote:
* Is the weight/balance going to be fine with the tranny about 4 inches forward of original? (om602 is shorter, but nearly fits existing mount locations by being about the same place from the front as the m104) I know this will require moving the tranny mount stuff.
Of course the ratios will be off some but shouldnt matter.
Quote:
* Will be modifying the engine mounts crossmember, as the om602 sits too high and doesn't *quite* fit the existing mount points, hopefully won't have to modify too much else physically besides that and the tranny mount.
Why arent you using m103 mounts?
Quote:
* The preglow system seems pretty straightforward to integrate into the starter circuit. But, how can I add the vacuum valve to stop the motor? Would prefer a mechanical method, like the w124, so the motor will keep running even if the electrical system fails (saved my butt in the w124 shortly after we originally bought it)
Can you not use the 124 ignition?
Quote:
I have the manuals for w124, r129, and w140, plus WIS. I also have access to Mitchell's OnDemand5. My local shop is not expert in Mercedes, more American and Asian cars. They do handle major projects though and have a machine shop for fabrication.

Thanks for any advice or even just moral support!

-bkc (Lynnwood, WA)
This is not the first 129 swap. Google around and find ppl with good experience.
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:33 AM
Admiral Ahani's Avatar
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I've always wished they made a diesel R129........

So I could swap in a twin turbo v8 and be smog exempt!

Well, I'm all for it when someone decides not to compromise and they build exactly what they want. Good luck!

Why not make some custom motor mounts (relatively easy) to keep the tranny where it's supposed to be? Seems a lot simpler than driveline modification, and better for handling.
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:43 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
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Sweet project. I'd like to do something like that eventually.
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2014, 12:33 PM
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Location: San Diego County, CA
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Nothing better than a diesel sports car!

I like to think of an engine swap as a two step process.

Step 1 is Fitment - This is the process of getting the engine/transmission/driveshaft in the car with the proper clearances and support. If it won't fit, nothing else matters.

Step 2 is Hook Up - Once you know everything fits, it becomes a matter of hooking everything up one system at a time - fuel, exhaust, cooling, control, gauges, climate, electrical, smog, vacuum, etc. and of course the diesel specific stuff - glow, shutdown.

There are quite a number of swap threads that will become a wealth of knowledge to you in thinking through your project.

My own build thread (617->107) - 380SL Diesel Conversion Project

Toyota Pickup - My Official OM617 Toyota Pickup Repower Thread

Studebaker Pickup - 1939 Studebaker coupe express

S-10 - I'm Back! S-10 OM617 Project

606 -> 107 - Not "another" diesel 107!!

These threads probably won't answer your particular questions, but they will provide insight into what is involved and the thinking process used to solve the myriad problems that arise in doing a project.

Please take lots and lots of pictures and document your project for the benefit of others that come after.

Speaking personally, my project would have been an order of magnitude more difficult without the insight, suggestions, ideas and support of this forum.

Good luck.

Oh, and don't forget to ensure that you understand the legal/regulatory issues in your area as it applies to your project so you don't get it done and then not be able to drive it.
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2014, 03:23 PM
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Location: Bedfordshire UK
Posts: 485
I have posted this before , once today in the wrong thread and a few years back.
Hope it is of help , it shows pics of crossmember alteration and a explains a few other odds and ends.
I am currently searching for the main build up thread and will post a link to it once I find it ( this link is to a thread that is more of an overview of the conversion).
pictures No:petrol out-diesel in - Mercedes-Benz Owners' Forums


Okay this link should open to a two page list of threads started by the builder of the diesel r129 over here in the UK.
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/search.php?searchid=5325686

Last edited by Murkybenz; 07-24-2014 at 03:38 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2014, 05:22 PM
bkc bkc is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Just north of Seattle, WA
Posts: 121
Hi, all. Thanks for the responses so far!

Greatly appreciate the advice and support! I've avidly read through mach4's r107 conversion, what I could find of brianbrian's om605/r129 conversion in the UK (seemed to only find the "after" threads, although his crossmember alteration is part of my plan), and whipplem104's om602/w123/722.6 conversion. These threads are what give me ammo to all the naysayers.

mach4: "Speaking personally, my project would have been an order of magnitude more difficult without the insight, suggestions, ideas and support of this forum."

Seeing this is why I finally posted here. It felt like the best "home" for my project!

To answer some of the questions:
> Why not make some custom motor mounts (relatively easy) to keep the tranny where it's supposed to be? Seems a lot simpler than driveline modification, and better for handling.

May have to make custom mounts, but the motor fits almost perfectly being that far forward. All the front stuff lines up (space for oil pan, fan shroud, etc). Moving it back would entail moving the steering linkages I think.

> Oh, and don't forget to ensure that you understand the legal/regulatory issues in your area as it applies to your project so you don't get it done and then not be able to drive it.

Several buddies around here have done other diesel conversions (just not into MBs). Apparently here I just tell them the fuel type changed and that's it, even for emissions testing (one more year of it). Even if I take it elsewhere eventually, a) it is a 1991 so will be grandfathered in most places by then, and b) it is a 1993 motor going into a 1991 car, so fits the newer motor than car requirement many other places.
__________________
Current stable:
1976 240D [W115.117/616.916] (acq 11Jun76)
1990 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (acq 4Sep15)
1991 SL250d (ex-300SL-24) [R129.061/OM602.962/722.6, was M104.981] (acq 25May12, converted to diesel)
1993 Jeep Cherokee [XJ] (acq 12Apr14)
1999 SLK23 AMG Sport [R170.447] (acq 12May21)
2007 E320 Bluetec/CDI [W211.022/642.920] (acq 10Oct18)

-- Deceased...
1993 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled by Dominos driver 28Mar12)
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2014, 05:38 PM
bkc bkc is offline
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Location: Just north of Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
Why? You should be able to do this with all stock parts.
With the shorter motor, the tranny will be further forward as well, so the driveshaft needs to be longer. The mounts don't quite fit (almost). And the motor is slightly too tall with the crossmember as it is now. Moving the motor back to "normal" would hit the steering linkage stuff and require removing the crossmember and building entirely new mount points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
Why wouldnt you keep the 602 eng and trans together? You will need to swap EDS over.
I am hoping to be able to take advantage of the 5th gear in the 722.500 in the r129. Plus it is electronic speedo and various other connections which should just work by keeping the existing tranny. At least that was my thinking. I still have the 722.418 tranny in case I end up needing to go with it instead.

Already have the EDS wiring 99% figured out. (Well, subject to finding problems once it is all together.) The 1% is getting info to the r129 systems that want data, such as the HGS/TCM and tach. That and I misplaced the actual EDS unit (I put it "somewhere safe") - need to keep tearing through the house and garage to find it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
Of course the ratios will be off some but shouldnt matter.
Good to know. Which ratios? The rear diff is currently a 3.70, but if it proves problematic I can just swap in the 2.65 diff from any other r129 model (direct fit).

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
Why arent you using m103 mounts?
I tried both the om602/w124 mounts and the m104/r129 mounts. The m104 mounts *almost* work, but the angle is off. I'm going to experiment more with the m104 mount arms, but I don't think that solves the problem. Since we have to modify the crossmember with the mount seats anyway, might as well just alter those at the same time. I don't have access to m103 mounts without buying a new set (and they should be pretty similar to the m104, anyway, I expect?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
Can you not use the 124 ignition?
No, it is a w140/r129 style ignition switch. On the plus side, it should have the pinout for a 300/350SD, but that seems to use power to keep the engine on (hard to tell from the diagrams). May just go with that method for starters and worry about it later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
This is not the first 129 swap. Google around and find ppl with good experience.
Yup, have seen a few, but not this particular swap so far. There's the om605 NA in the UK, and a 617 somewhere (lost that link), and the 602 into a few other models, but I've not seen om602/r129 (there was one that popped up on Craigslist briefly near Phoenix, but the ad expired before I got a chance to follow up with it).

Thanks!
-Bruce
__________________
Current stable:
1976 240D [W115.117/616.916] (acq 11Jun76)
1990 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (acq 4Sep15)
1991 SL250d (ex-300SL-24) [R129.061/OM602.962/722.6, was M104.981] (acq 25May12, converted to diesel)
1993 Jeep Cherokee [XJ] (acq 12Apr14)
1999 SLK23 AMG Sport [R170.447] (acq 12May21)
2007 E320 Bluetec/CDI [W211.022/642.920] (acq 10Oct18)

-- Deceased...
1993 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled by Dominos driver 28Mar12)
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2014, 06:06 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,518
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc View Post
I've been hesitant to post about my project here, as it moves in spurts. But, now that it is moving along more significantly, here we go. Besides, I may need help!

Anyway, quick summary:
=== donor car
1993 300D 2.5L Turbo w124.128 (wrecked by Domino's driver)
OM602.962 turbo diesel 5cyl motor
722.418 tranny

=== project car
1991 300SL-24 r129.061
m104.981 motor
722.500 tranny
instrument cluster was upgraded by previous owner to the newer, digital panel, in case that matters


(The r129 with my lovely and project-supportive wife!)

=== the plan
remove m104, keep 722.500
install om602

=== current status
* I've pulled the motors and trannies, and am working on figuring out all the wiring and such. Two years ago I didn't know what a socket wrench was, so I've learned a lot along the way (am currently semi-apprenticing at a local shop).

* My local shop is scheduled to do the physical alterations for the motor and tranny to fit, sublet the fuel tank reseal, and alter/replace the propeller shaft and exhaust, starting next week sometime.

=== questions so far
* Will the 722.500 tranny work fine with the om602? They have the same bell housing and bolt pattern, so they physically fit. The 722.500 torque converter has a larger pump bore on the tranny side, but otherwise seems identical to the 722.418 (at least from the outside). Can I just plug the vacuum line from the om602 injector pump in where the vacuum line from the m104 went on the .500 tranny?

* How do I get the HGS (TCM) working with om602/EDS output? Is the diesel speed sensor (144/rotation) signal to/from the EDS compatible with what the HGS/TCM wants? What do I use to indicate engine load to the HGS?

* Is the weight/balance going to be fine with the tranny about 4 inches forward of original? (om602 is shorter, but nearly fits existing mount locations by being about the same place from the front as the m104) I know this will require moving the tranny mount stuff.

* Will be modifying the engine mounts crossmember, as the om602 sits too high and doesn't *quite* fit the existing mount points, hopefully won't have to modify too much else physically besides that and the tranny mount.

* Will any particular diesel mesh filter fit the r129 tank? Seems like any of them should?

* I'm planning to have the fuel tank cleaned and "resealed" to deal with the galvanization concerns

* Still trying to identify various wires that don't seem to match the manuals and ETM diagrams (e.g. a thick black-red with white spots wire). I want to make sure I remove/cap unnecessary wires, but not lose ones I need to keep or repurpose.

* The preglow system seems pretty straightforward to integrate into the starter circuit. But, how can I add the vacuum valve to stop the motor? Would prefer a mechanical method, like the w124, so the motor will keep running even if the electrical system fails (saved my butt in the w124 shortly after we originally bought it)

I have the manuals for w124, r129, and w140, plus WIS. I also have access to Mitchell's OnDemand5. My local shop is not expert in Mercedes, more American and Asian cars. They do handle major projects though and have a machine shop for fabrication.

Thanks for any advice or even just moral support!

-bkc (Lynnwood, WA)
Hotter than a 2 dollar pistol-George Jones
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  #11  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:20 PM
bkc bkc is offline
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Whoo-hoo! Found the EDS. Looks like my mother-in-law had randomly put away the box with it and some other parts during a cleanup while she was visiting... Found it under some clothes and photos in the spare room. Sigh. Well, at least it is found now.
__________________
Current stable:
1976 240D [W115.117/616.916] (acq 11Jun76)
1990 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (acq 4Sep15)
1991 SL250d (ex-300SL-24) [R129.061/OM602.962/722.6, was M104.981] (acq 25May12, converted to diesel)
1993 Jeep Cherokee [XJ] (acq 12Apr14)
1999 SLK23 AMG Sport [R170.447] (acq 12May21)
2007 E320 Bluetec/CDI [W211.022/642.920] (acq 10Oct18)

-- Deceased...
1993 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled by Dominos driver 28Mar12)
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2014, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc View Post
Whoo-hoo! Found the EDS. Looks like my mother-in-law had randomly put away the box with it and some other parts during a cleanup while she was visiting... Found it under some clothes and photos in the spare room. Sigh. Well, at least it is found now.
Oh those darn mother in-laws.

Can't imagine a 602 under an SL. Sweet. Anything going to be done performance wise? Larger IP elements etc?
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2014, 10:40 PM
bkc bkc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake12tech View Post
Oh those darn mother in-laws.

Can't imagine a 602 under an SL. Sweet. Anything going to be done performance wise? Larger IP elements etc?
Initially, just want to get it working. Then we'll see how it performs. I don't need a real sportscar. -- we were perfectly happy roadtripping in the (now-wrecked) '93 300D. If you notice from my stable listing, I'm perfectly fine with diesel performance. I've been driving the '76 240D since 1986, although I would never want to take it on a real roadtrip, you know, with mountains and such!

That said, the r129 is a heavier car. I do want to be able to merge onto the highway and pass uphill with no more concern than I would with my '87 300D (which will probably go away once the r129 is reliable). So, probably none of the "break the bank" mods, but likely some improvements once it is reliable and broken in.
__________________
Current stable:
1976 240D [W115.117/616.916] (acq 11Jun76)
1990 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (acq 4Sep15)
1991 SL250d (ex-300SL-24) [R129.061/OM602.962/722.6, was M104.981] (acq 25May12, converted to diesel)
1993 Jeep Cherokee [XJ] (acq 12Apr14)
1999 SLK23 AMG Sport [R170.447] (acq 12May21)
2007 E320 Bluetec/CDI [W211.022/642.920] (acq 10Oct18)

-- Deceased...
1993 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled by Dominos driver 28Mar12)
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2014, 11:35 PM
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Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murkybenz View Post
I have posted this before , once today in the wrong thread and a few years back.
Hope it is of help , it shows pics of crossmember alteration and a explains a few other odds and ends.
I am currently searching for the main build up thread and will post a link to it once I find it ( this link is to a thread that is more of an overview of the conversion).
pictures No:petrol out-diesel in - Mercedes-Benz Owners' Forums


Okay this link should open to a two page list of threads started by the builder of the diesel r129 over here in the UK.
Mercedes-Benz Owners' Forums

HMMMMM.........No matches on that second link, won`t open up.


Charlie
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Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

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  #15  
Old 07-25-2014, 11:50 PM
ROLLGUY's Avatar
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After reading and following along with mach4's SLD thread, I will be following this one with interest.....Rich

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