Clank Clank when cold....new engine time?? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #1 10-29-2014, 02:30 PM

Sorry more detailed instructions for this broad range of advice will be needed - a look at the good book would be a start but I can hold hands if needed!

leathermang · #2 10-29-2014, 03:12 PM

Stretch....are you sure about the ' all hydraulic ' nature of the non turbo 617....here is a thread about a 616....

Timing chain tensioner...

leathermang · #3 10-29-2014, 03:40 PM

I think the pressure switch on the backside of the oil pump needs to be replaced...
there were several different ' settings ' of them... different oil pressures... over the years...
You are taking the pan off anyway... easy to address...

cooljjay · #4 10-29-2014, 06:06 PM

Pan has been dropped...and as stretch said, there is no chain....there goes that thought....stupid fsm gave me the instructions on removing a turbo oil pump....oh well it needed to be done and I have my euro to drive until I figure this out....I just occasionally like driving an auto

Ok so oil pan removal time, and time to get greasy!!! So nothing was in the pan, everything physically looks ok buuuttttt

I found a washer in the oil pump screen??? It looks like a wave washer, ones you see used on the valve cover studs...but it is thick...thoughts????

I am going to search to see how one removes the non turbo oil pump...

Oh and maybe stretch is right about that timing device, I had a hard time keeping it running this morning..

Lucas · #5 11-16-2014, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

I found a similar washer in the same spot on a 220d. My theory was it fell off the valve cover and through the timing chain assembly. When I lift the valve cover off its kind of the required motion. Not sure if everyone does it the same.

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801mbz · #6 10-29-2014, 07:45 PM

Sounds like fuel knock to me also.

cooljjay · #7 10-30-2014, 03:55 PM

Well going out now to pull the thrust piece and try to yank the oil pump out....I can twist the oil pump but can't get it to come out...

leathermang · #8 10-30-2014, 04:37 PM

Remind us..... why are you taking off the oil pump ?

cooljjay · #9 10-30-2014, 08:22 PM

Here is why....

So lets start the list of things that need to be replaced...gulppp...

So I noticed my oil pan is marked Febi...i was hmm that is odd, must have been replaced...though maybe a PO hit a curb or something in the past.

So pull the oil pump, what the? is that a crack?

Yes it is a crack....

ah not to bad

Now lets pull the thrush bushing...

Not good...worn down...

Look at the gear, not to bad but some wear.

The oil pump bottom half....wear, not to bad but wear.

The pressure relief valve is missing the o-ring as well as everything above it...where it is I have no idea..

So conclusion, the pump was damaged when the oil pan crunched some time in the past and the shop never replaced the pump. Normal wear to the rest? I am not sure on that.

So I will need a

new thrush bushing...can you believe the price search #1261800044 154$ but they have 3 oem ones on ebay for 35$

New oil pump 419$..

But it looks like, I will either get a used pump or attempt to find all the pieces..

Its time to do more searching and figuring out what I can do. I have to assume that this is what is causing all my issues..

ah-kay · #10 10-30-2014, 09:28 PM

The oil pump is NOT your problem. The crack is on the intake side and the impact is minimal, if at all. Gear pump is of pretty crude design and a little wear and tear not going to affect anything. Good luck.

unkl300d · #11 10-30-2014, 10:45 PM

Knocking sound

hope its just the injectors.....

cooljjay · #12 10-31-2014, 01:30 AM

There is a fuel knock but there is also something way down deeper. What is happening, is that I have a few other similar issues that are all related.

The oil squirters are not squirting, in fact I even seen air come out of them. My oil pressure has dropped a bar at idle then it normally sits.

The wear in the barring is allowing the gear to slip off of the rod on the oil pump thus oil pressure is dropping and also the tensioner on the chain relays on oil pressure, when the pressure isn't there it is causing slack in the chain...thus the really low down clank I hear.

Here's an older thread from someone who had the same problem. Though he lost his oil pressure completely.

Sudden loss of oil pressure! - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Besides the pickup on the oil pump, the oil pump is fine and with in wear perimeters but the bushing isn't.

Stretch · #13 10-31-2014, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Stretch....are you sure about the ' all hydraulic ' nature of the non turbo 617....here is a thread about a 616....

Timing chain tensioner...

Well there is a spring in there too but it does not seem to have the ratchet design that the turbo and later designs on newer Mercedes engines have. There's a whole explanation in the (non turbo section) of the FSM and how you are meant to fill it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

There is a fuel knock but there is also something way down deeper. What is happening, is that I have a few other similar issues that are all related.

...

The wear on the end of this bit does not look too good =>

I've been told that "people" either replace it or smooth off the end of it and then re-tap the little screw hole in the bit that holds it in place (that is above it). I've never done either myself. The wear on the end though causes the parts to rattle about even though oil is being forced by the oil pump up that way...

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

...

The oil squirters are not squirting, in fact I even seen air come out of them. My oil pressure has dropped a bar at idle then it normally sits.

...

Please explain what you mean about oil squirters?

Are you saying no oil is coming out of the spray bar over the camshaft? Or do you think your non turbo OM617 has got piston cooling oil squirters like the turbo version? ('Cos it hasn't)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

...
The wear in the barring is allowing the gear to slip off of the rod on the oil pump thus oil pressure is dropping and also the tensioner on the chain relays on oil pressure, when the pressure isn't there it is causing slack in the chain...thus the really low down clank I hear.

Here's an older thread from someone who had the same problem. Though he lost his oil pressure completely.

Sudden loss of oil pressure! - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Besides the pickup on the oil pump, the oil pump is fine and with in wear perimeters but the bushing isn't.

I think this happens / partly happens because of the wear in that bit in the picture above

cooljjay · #14 10-31-2014, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Please explain what you mean about oil squirters?

Are you saying no oil is coming out of the spray bar over the camshaft? Or do you think your non turbo OM617 has got piston cooling oil squirters like the turbo version? ('Cos it hasn't)

That is it, the spray bar....my terminology isn't up to par today, been going through so many part lists that I am lost :p

Because of the crack in the pickup, when the oil is in the engine and the pan is a little low....air would get sucked through the crack and make the spray par spray oil out like a squirt bottle...was really odd...the euro just has a constant oil stream..

Yes it isn't good....this is what the bushing is suppose to look like..

Stretch · #15 10-31-2014, 04:34 AM

Looking at that picture it looks like the hole and screw I mentioned previously about fixing is in that bit after all. It has been a long time since I took that bit to pieces - apologies...

...time for a replacement oil pump I think. I might be wrong about this but I get the feeling that the non turbo OM617 pump has a little bit more oompf than the OM616 equivalent. I think I remember something like that - time for a check in the FSM / EPC again...