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Help Please: W123 Pulley - Harmonic Balancer Question
I have a W123 - 300D with OM617.912 Engine (NA)
I want to install the double alternator pulley and I need the corresponding double crank pulley. I could not find anything suggesting that the NA flavor had the double pulley option. If so, please let me know. I sourced the double alternator pulley and double crank pulley from a 1982 (1983?) 300SD from the yard on Sunday. It had the standard OM617.95X engine. After removing the crank pulley from my car, it is very clear that the set up is different. Here is my question: Has anyone swapped out the NA harmonic balancer for the Turbo one? The pulley assembly from the NA is longer and heavier. I looked and cannot find anything concrete -- here's a bunch of threads in one stop shopping. Diesel Harmonic Balancer threads Although my NA engine will most likely not be in my car another year (I hope), I want to knock out all of my R&D, et cet., and other changes in a "final" version in the next few months. The car is grounded and is not leaving the garage until the work is done. keeping it as a DD was nutty ... If the harmonic balancer can be swapped, then that adds around 3" of space to the front of the engine plus a double alt pulley ... Any help is greatly appreciated !!!!! |
#2
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Every question has to be asked for the first time at some time....... looks like you might be that one...
I like having double pulleys on things..as one failure does not put you on the side of the road or mess up something......and you can run less side pressure... which is good for the bearing life... even better to have another load 180 degrees to balance out side pressure...
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1980 240d , chain elongation, cam marks reference: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/10414-help-i-need-check-stretch.html http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html evap fin cleaning: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/156207-photo-step-step-post-showing-w123-evaporator-removal-1983-240d-1982-300td.html?highlight=evaporator A/C thread http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html |
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Before the sharpshooters comment, I understand MB and FSM used slightly differently terminology: pulley, vibration damper and balancing disc ....
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Quote:
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I'm sure you must know this, and not sure if it's the same, but my 615 used dowel pins on the balancer/crank. Mercedes doesn't know which ones they are selling, and mine came too long. Someone had installed a set on my donor motor, and fortunately they split and ate the balancer, not the crank.
That being said I have an extra double crank pulley from my 615.912. I can measure it up tomorrow if you're curious. I would probably poke around for a different pulley before messing with the balancer. Seems like it would effect balance. But I'm a novice advising experts. |
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I went ahead and decided this really cannot be that difficult ... or it should not be that difficult. Worst case is that I hit the local JY and grab the NA pulley.
I broke out the scale: Turbo pulley weighs 1.780 NA pulley weighs 1.340 The NA pulley probably weighs a few more grams because I had to saw zaw it since my friend, #6 bolt out of 6 took an hour or so to remove. The other 5 took about 10 minutes. What is weird is that the JY donor did not have the vibration damper (folks selling them are calling them "vibration absorber".) It's MB Part # 617 030 0803 off the NA engine. So, I cannot compare the weight between the NA one (pictured) and the turbo flavor. That just leaves the balancing disk, but I am in the same boat in not being able to weigh the two for comparisions. I think the "real" issue is weather or not it will bolt up. If so, I wonder if a few grams (assuming that is the case) will make any real difference ??????? |
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Think percentages not grams? I really don't know. Greg has me scared of not following the FSM. Im in training. Wax on, wax off. But sending some injectors hopefully soon.
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The scale and my notes are off a hair ... not sure what happened, but the differences are around .98 or .97 of a pound or around 15.5 oz's.
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#9
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My front seal has always leaked a little, so worst case is this turns into a repair and I pop a NA pulley back on the old girl and run just one belt vs. two. Old NA pulley gots sawed in two ... I really hate those 6 bolts. You only get one shot at getting them or it's chisel and drill time.
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I'm the one who suggested the 300SD dual pulley setup for your car so I thought I should weigh in.
According to EPC the balancing disk and vibration absorber for the 300SD are different than your 300D NA. I attached a thumbnail from another thread that illustrates the 300SD setup. If the donor engine didn't have the vibration absorber what was in it's place to take up the space between the pulley and the balancing disk? I would try to use your original balancing disk and use a 300SD vibration absorber. The thickness of that part will determine the belt line. I wouldn't get too concerned over its mass as it was designed for the same rotating assembly. From everything I've seen it's neutrally balanced and is not part of the balanced rotating assembly. If you have to change balancing disks that's another story and you may get into issues with engine balance. Another thought: The turbo engines have an oil pump drive sprocket on the crank nose behind the balancing disk. This may have changed the overall length of the crank nose and changed the distance between the mounting face of the balancing disk and the front of the block. That would necessitate a change in all three parts to keep the belt line. If that's true you will not be able to use the 300SD crank pulley without some modification.
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1969 220D 5 Speed (OM616) 1983 240D 4 Speed 1985 300D Auto 376K 1985 300D Auto 275K |
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When I yanked the pulley I did not see the vibration damper and it was not connected to the pulley. I don't know what was there. That is odd. Either I just missed it, but I don't think so. When I pulled the NA pulley off, the vibration damper came right with it so it would be tough to miss it, but who knows. I was there yaking with the guy who initially made claim to the engine for almost 2 hours so perhaps I just moved on without paying attention ...
I guess the next step is to locate a turbo vibration damper and see if the that will mate to the balancing disk. If not, I can get another NA pulley - damper at the yard here locally unless they crush the car by this weekend. Overall, not a big deal since I can simply replace the seal to get rid of a pesty oil leak and install the original stuff and abandon the idea of a duel alt pulley. Not sure there's a way to mod any of these parts without major R&D effort and it's not really worth it because the ultimate goal is the turbo engine. It just would have been nice. So far, I know that the pulley and vibration damper are neutral balanced so they are interchangable per all the posts on the net. The only thing "balanced" with that engine is the balancing disk. A donor disk can be balanced by matching it with the original disk. The only issue I guess is will the balancing disk bolt up to the crank ????? |
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Per the parts pages on S A MB, there are 2
617 0310 107 617 0300 530 Not sure how different they are since the pictures look the same to me. The balancing disk is called a "counterweight" in the parts' section If they are same, then the solution is just finding a vibration damper. If not, ball game is over for this one. |
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Will keep an eye on this thread, considering doing the same but opposite way around...
Interesting about the balancing, I know my NA pulley(s) has a "weight" on one side. Sorry for not helping much
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1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making.... 1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...) 1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone* 1977 250 parts car 1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone* 1975 FJ45>HJ45 1981 200>240D (to be sold...) 1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone* 1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist) 2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD |
#14
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I don't know for sure but I get the feeling (sorry folks vague I know!) that as the cranks are different (turbo has the extra gubbins on the front for the chain driven oil pump); that not only is the crankshaft longer (see VT220D's post #10) but perhaps the ends are also of different shape? May be this requires a different "counterweight" - just a feeling...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#15
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And I'm realizing I swapped balancers without thinking. Didn't notice any weights. Seems to be ok. Lol.
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