Drive shaft ctr support - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stevo · #1 04-05-2015, 11:33 AM

I replaced the drive shaft support & bearing when I got my 85 Euro TD several years ago and last month it needed replacing again and since I have a problem shoulder and can't manage that job very easy, I had a friend with a shop do it. And now after only a few hundred miles it needs replacing again. I haven't crawled under yet but its unlikely my friend screwed up the job. When I had the DS out the first time I noticed that I could feel a "detente" when I rotated the U-joint, not much but very noticeable. Could that be causing this problem? The replacement support was a Febi from Pelican.

Diesel911 · #2 04-05-2015, 11:44 AM

It is hard to say. What make of Drive Shaft Support did you use? I settled on one by Myele even thought there are no longer great supplier of Parts. There is 2 companies that sell the Support with the Bearing already in it and People have said they do not last.

This is a fairly recent threads:
Sticking U-joint causes Vibration that Rips up several Drive Shaft Supports turns out to be Rusty Needle Bearings
W123 Propeller shaft vibration tears up rubber mounts, replaced nearly everything

Stevo · #3 04-05-2015, 01:27 PM

It was a Febi. Wasn't it you that found an after market U joint, well anyway I followed that lead an bought one a while ago, thank you, at least I have one if needed without trying to find another drive shaft for a 5 speed car. I'll crawl under next week and take a look, maybe my buddies helper left something lose but the car feels just like it did before. the vibration was really noticeable yesterday when I had some passengers in the wagon. come to think of it, that Fibe support didn't have the "normal" rubber "web" to support it, well it still shouldn't have went south that fast I spoz.

Diesel911 · #4 04-05-2015, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo

It was a Febi. Wasn't it you that found an after market U joint, well anyway I followed that lead an bought one a while ago, thank you, at least I have one if needed without trying to find another drive shaft for a 5 speed car. I'll crawl under next week and take a look, maybe my buddies helper left something lose but the car feels just like it did before. the vibration was really noticeable yesterday when I had some passengers in the wagon. come to think of it, that Fibe support didn't have the "normal" rubber "web" to support it, well it still shouldn't have went south that fast I spoz.

Febi; unforunatly there is no company like Lemfoerder that I could find selling a better quality Drive Shaft Bearing Support and no one has bought one from the Dealer and given some comment on who might make the one from the Dealer.

If you are speaking of Me as you said I replaced My U-joint long ago before the info in the newer thread was availiable that essentially said you could beat on the U-joint and restore it to flexing properly again.

My case was different. I was having no vibration issues but had My B2 Piston break. I removed the Drive Shaft in order to push the Transmission to the side to get at the B2 Piston.

When I had the Drive Shaft off I found that the Drive Shaft Bearing Support was cracking so I decided to repalce that and the Drive Shaft Support Bearing.

During the inspection I found the notchy U-joint and looked up an old thread on replacing it and did a good deal of searches to find the U-joint wich turned out to be cheap and easy to find if I had know what to look for.
I also found that there are quite a few Cars that have the staked in U-joints. Ford actually has a kit to remove the Staking on some of their Drive shafts.
Unfotunately no kit for Mercedes.

In short I got away with changing the U-joint.

If I had known about the newer info and freeing up the Joint I likely would have tried that before ordering a U-joint. Also it is not clear if freeing up the Old U-joint has logivity it.
So I guess you have a choice to make.

Stretch · #5 04-05-2015, 05:34 PM

I have had trouble with Febi rubber parts...

SD Blue · #6 04-05-2015, 07:50 PM

I understand your frustration as I'm having trouble with mine as well. I've changed the Support and Bearing out twice. Since I went the cheaper route, using the assembled bearing and support, I initially attributed it to the trouble folks were having with Uro.

I've been chasing issues with mine since I "trusted" a shop that claimed to know what they were doing. There were several things wrong with the "repair" and have resolved most of them. From the FSM, I found that the orientation of the hardware and the front balance disc were important to the balance of the shaft. These shafts certainly seem to be very finicky about small variations of weight. Most of the vibration issues have been resolved.

However, I'm also beginning to think the torn support rubber may partially be due to a missing part. I found out there is supposed to be a lock ring, on the front shaft, after the bearing and support. That and a new, quality bearing with a new support, and I hope to finally resolve the torn rubber issues.

If your mechanic finds something key to why the rubber mount is being destroyed, I certainly would be interested, as well.

Diesel911 · #7 04-05-2015, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Blue

I understand your frustration as I'm having trouble with mine as well. I've changed the Support and Bearing out twice. Since I went the cheaper route, using the assembled bearing and support, I initially attributed it to the trouble folks were having with Uro.

I've been chasing issues with mine since I "trusted" a shop that claimed to know what they were doing. There were several things wrong with the "repair" and have resolved most of them. From the FSM, I found that the orientation of the hardware and the front balance disc were important to the balance of the shaft. These shafts certainly seem to be very finicky about small variations of weight. Most of the vibration issues have been resolved.

However, I'm also beginning to think the torn support rubber may partially be due to a missing part. I found out there is supposed to be a lock ring, on the front shaft, after the bearing and support. That and a new, quality bearing with a new support, and I hope to finally resolve the torn rubber issues.

If your mechanic finds something key to why the rubber mount is being destroyed, I certainly would be interested, as well.

In the Manual on the W123s it shows that after August 1982 there is no locking Ring but there is a stamped metal self locking protective cap that slides onto the shaft and holds the Bearing in place. It has it is only supposed to used one time.
The onetime use is info I missed when I did mine as I reused mine; so far no issues. I have no front balance disc.

Stevo · #8 04-05-2015, 10:12 PM

Stretch, I've had pretty good luck with Fibe clutch masters and slaves, but maybe their rubber parts should be avoided.

SD Blue, This TD is the first 617 car I've done much work on but I've done several 240D drive shaft jobs with never a problem but they dont have that front balance disc which are kind of in the way of getting the flex disc lose.

I'm getting the sense that folks dont think that a little detente in the U joint would cause the support to fail, epically within such a short time, or at least no one has jumped out there with info to that effect. I'll crawl under and take a look at that support next week and get back.

Stevo · #9 04-05-2015, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Febi; unforunatly there is no company like Lemfoerder that I could find selling a better quality Drive Shaft Bearing Support and no one has bought one from the Dealer and given some comment on who might make the one from the Dealer.

If you are speaking of Me as you said I replaced My U-joint long ago before the info in the newer thread was availiable that essentially said you could beat on the U-joint and restore it to flexing properly again.

My case was different. I was having no vibration issues but had My B2 Piston break. I removed the Drive Shaft in order to push the Transmission to the side to get at the B2 Piston.

When I had the Drive Shaft off I found that the Drive Shaft Bearing Support was cracking so I decided to repalce that and the Drive Shaft Support Bearing.

During the inspection I found the notchy U-joint and looked up an old thread on replacing it and did a good deal of searches to find the U-joint wich turned out to be cheap and easy to find if I had know what to look for.
I also found that there are quite a few Cars that have the staked in U-joints. Ford actually has a kit to remove the Staking on some of their Drive shafts.
Unfotunately no kit for Mercedes.

In short I got away with changing the U-joint.

If I had known about the newer info and freeing up the Joint I likely would have tried that before ordering a U-joint. Also it is not clear if freeing up the Old U-joint has logivity it.
So I guess you have a choice to make.

I would definitely like to find a better support. The Febi does not have the rubber webbing. Its just the round "holder' attached to the bracket.

charmalu · #10 04-06-2015, 12:34 AM

Steve, It seems like all the U-Joints in these MB`s with 200K + miles will have that notche detent feel.
The DL really doesn`t move as it is pretty rigid the way it is mounted, so the joint doesn`t get much movement
compared to one say with a rigid rear axle like a PU.

I had the joint replaced by a DL shop about 3 yrs back. They used a joint that
needs a shot of grease now and then. They replaced the 2 centering Bushings
in the end of the shafts, plus the Center Support and Bearing.

33K miles later, the rubber support was torn all the way around. ordered one
from Pelican, was a Fibi with a made in China sticker. Rubber looks similar to
the one it replaced.

We`ll see how long this one lasts. Just was under the 240 checking things yesterday,
so far...so good. gave the Joint a shot of grease.

If this one goes, it will be one from the Dealer, think they were $95. Cheap when
you think of the longevity of them.

Maybe one from PNP would last longer.

Charlie

Stevo · #11 04-06-2015, 10:06 AM

Morning Charlie, Humm, I'm having a hard time finding something to blame for taking out that center support besides myself for using a Febi made in China

and I ordered two of them, one for a spare, doh. Yah, maybe one from one of my parts cars would last longer, I'd try it if it wasn't such a hassle to get

. That "notche detent" was the only wrinkle I could think of. I like the idea of a grease fitting in the U joint, my DS between tractor and mower has them. Maybe something will come to light when i look under there but it feels just it did before, same vibration.
Have a nice day and enjoy the sunshine.

SD Blue · #12 04-06-2015, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

In the Manual on the W123s it shows that after August 1982 there is no locking Ring but there is a stamped metal self locking protective cap that slides onto the shaft and holds the Bearing in place. It has it is only supposed to used one time.
The onetime use is info I missed when I did mine as I reused mine; so far no issues. I have no front balance disc.

Hmm... I see what you mean after studying the manual for the W126. It wouldn't surprise me about missing that self locking cap. There were many pieces of hardware I discovered missing after the shop "repair". From the FSM, this appears to be just a friction fit sleeve. Is this correct?

The front balance disc, for those that have it, just needs to be installed according to the markings. (The arrow on the vibration dampner has to point to the hump on one leg of the three legged flange.)

mach4 · #13 04-06-2015, 01:02 PM

I know an aircraft A&P that fixed a torn center bearing support using a two-part jet fuel tank sealer. The material is extremely tough and remains flexible - unfortunately not sure us mere mortals could easily get our hands on such exotic and presumably spendy materials. However, I'm wondering if it would be possible to emulate that repair with polyurethane or maybe silicone on a new part to serve as a reinforcement that might make the cheap Chinese stuff servicable.

Stretch · #14 04-06-2015, 02:14 PM

With reference to the Mercedes UJs => there was mention that knocking them out a little bit - squirting oil (I think) - and then knocking them back fixes the notchiness problem. I haven't tried this myself yet (too busy moving house and sofa surfing at the moment) so I'm not sure if this works. I can find a link to this if needed...

...if I remember correctly the basic message was that the needle bearings within get rusty and just need a bit of help...

Zulfiqar · #15 04-06-2015, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

With reference to the Mercedes UJs => there was mention that knocking them out a little bit - squirting oil (I think) - and then knocking them back fixes the notchiness problem. I haven't tried this myself yet (too busy moving house and sofa surfing at the moment) so I'm not sure if this works. I can find a link to this if needed...

...if I remember correctly the basic message was that the needle bearings within get rusty and just need a bit of help...

I think the major issue on that avenue is that we are hoping that 30 year old grease is working in the needles on the U joint bearings.

I dont think I have seen 30 yr old grease in serviceable condition.