My Custom 1980 W116 300SD Project Part 2 - Page 10 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pj67coll · #1 05-19-2019, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJenkins

This is fantastic work. I think you should start your own youtube channel. There are many people doing VW restorations and such but not many doing classic mercedes. I personally would love seeing work like this documented on video.

X2
It would have been wonderful if Squiggle could have video'd all this as I'm toying with the idea of trying to do the same rear end rebuild on my 240D. Obviously it can be done. But going into it blind with no mechanical experience could be a major problem.

- Peter.

dude99 · #2 05-20-2019, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJenkins

I think you should start your own youtube channel. There are many people doing VW restorations and such but not many doing classic mercedes. I personally would love seeing work like this documented on video.

I've been suggesting this to him for a while. I think he'd gain quite a following as well as make a few $$$ on the side.

dude99 · #3 07-19-2019, 12:35 AM

Are there any other dealers in your area? That short of s**t is just pathetic... Its no wonder so many of us have lost all faith is shops..

Squiggle Dog · #4 07-19-2019, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude99

Are there any other dealers in your area? That short of s**t is just pathetic... Its no wonder so many of us have lost all faith is shops..

I think the other dealerships are going to be just as bad. There is an alignment shop downtown that works on older cars which I am going to try. I just wanted it done correctly and without having to drive it too far and be away from the house for too long.

Unfortunately, I already took my roommate's W126 there and they refused to work on it because the parts were worn, so that's probably not a good sign.

dude99 · #5 07-19-2019, 12:45 AM

Maybe the others might have a service writer thats not a tool... or perhaps appreciated older cars...

ykobayashi · #6 07-19-2019, 01:36 AM

You’ve done some really nice work on the steering and suspension. I thought I’d chime in on what I ended up doing for my cars’ alignment.

When I changed out all the front end bushings on my 126 it stood up a lot in the front. Camber was visibly out. It should be about zero degrees and I could see with my eyeball that it was negative by quite a bit. I used an iPhone level app and some steel rulers on the rim to measure camber and I adjusted it. I then used a tape measure thumb tacked to the tire tread to set toe. Not perfect but it seemed to get it in the ballpark. The car dropped down in the front once I got it dialed. My thought was the PO had it aligned and the people adjusting it kept doing so for bushing wear. When I changed the bushings to fresh rubber it was way off.

That was about seven years ago. I put 50k on a set of new tires and didn’t have any wear issues. I recently acquired a 300d and it had a little pull to the right. My 126 always had a similar pull. I played with differential camber a bit to see if I could compensate for the pull in both cars but I never could quite get rid of it. It was very sensitive to road draft/crown.

Rather than bring it in I watched some videos on YouTube that said differential caster could cause pulling. Also some people here mentioned too much caster made these cars sensitive to road crown. I decided I really didn’t want some uptight tech at MB’s messing with it, or some idiot kid at the chain alignment shop touching it. I heard idiots can actually make things worse.

So I bought a used SPC Fastrax for $120. Does camber and caster. Piece of cake. I had to redo toe but I’ve gotten pretty quick at it using two (free) tape measures from harbor freight. Same thumb tack to the tread trick. I don’t use a spreader but I set my toe an extra 1mm in. It seems to work. I know this isn’t orthodox but I’m really happy with the results. No funny wear. No pulling. And best of all, no idiot techs telling me they cannot align the car or worse, messing up the alignment.

The fact your mb techs won’t do caster is a no go. Caster transformed my cars. My 300d was way out and it really stopped pulling after I evened it up. The SD runs a tiny bit of differential caster to dial out its pull.

Good luck squiggle dog. The car is looking great mechanically. I’d be itching to get some paint or wrap on it.

vwnate1 · #7 07-19-2019, 10:57 AM

This is usually a sign of poor caster so pay attention to what's being said here .

Some years ago there was an affordable camber gauge that held to the nose of the hub by magnetism ~ if still available this should be a good tool .

My self, I like zero to 1/16" of toe in and remember : you set the toe in after everything else is done .

Squiggle Dog · #8 07-19-2019, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

This is usually a sign of poor caster so pay attention to what's being said here .

Some years ago there was an affordable camber gauge that held to the nose of the hub by magnetism ~ if still available this should be a good tool .

My self, I like zero to 1/16" of toe in and remember : you set the toe in after everything else is done .

Right now the car goes down the road perfectly straight with the wheel perfectly centered. There is a bit of resistance when going into turns and the steering springs back to center. I have 1/8" (3mm) of toe-in, and that might be too much. I centered the bushings and then adjusted the toe afterward. It doesn't pull or drift at all.

It sounds like you are describing a tool similar to what ykobayashi uses.

vwnate1 · #9 07-20-2019, 05:10 PM

Camber is the tilt in/out of the wheels from the center .

Caster is how much the wheels trail the center of the pivot point, like the wheels in a shopping cart ~

Good caster helps return the steering to the center after you let go of it .

1/8" is too much toe in, you'll cause scrubbing of the outer tread edges....

? Why not paint stripe / chalk the tires and drive it a bit to see where the paint / chalk scrubs off ? then you'll know if your eyeball alignment is good or not

Sounds strange but many of the older Mechanics I knew did it this way and were always on spec .

Squiggle Dog · #10 07-19-2019, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykobayashi

You’ve done some really nice work on the steering and suspension. I thought I’d chime in on what I ended up doing for my cars’ alignment.

When I changed out all the front end bushings on my 126 it stood up a lot in the front. Camber was visibly out. It should be about zero degrees and I could see with my eyeball that it was negative by quite a bit. I used an iPhone level app and some steel rulers on the rim to measure camber and I adjusted it. I then used a tape measure thumb tacked to the tire tread to set toe. Not perfect but it seemed to get it in the ballpark. The car dropped down in the front once I got it dialed. My thought was the PO had it aligned and the people adjusting it kept doing so for bushing wear. When I changed the bushings to fresh rubber it was way off.

That was about seven years ago. I put 50k on a set of new tires and didn’t have any wear issues. I recently acquired a 300d and it had a little pull to the right. My 126 always had a similar pull. I played with differential camber a bit to see if I could compensate for the pull in both cars but I never could quite get rid of it. It was very sensitive to road draft/crown.

Rather than bring it in I watched some videos on YouTube that said differential caster could cause pulling. Also some people here mentioned too much caster made these cars sensitive to road crown. I decided I really didn’t want some uptight tech at MB’s messing with it, or some idiot kid at the chain alignment shop touching it. I heard idiots can actually make things worse.

So I bought a used SPC Fastrax for $120. Does camber and caster. Piece of cake. I had to redo toe but I’ve gotten pretty quick at it using two (free) tape measures from harbor freight. Same thumb tack to the tread trick. I don’t use a spreader but I set my toe an extra 1mm in. It seems to work. I know this isn’t orthodox but I’m really happy with the results. No funny wear. No pulling. And best of all, no idiot techs telling me they cannot align the car or worse, messing up the alignment.

The fact your mb techs won’t do caster is a no go. Caster transformed my cars. My 300d was way out and it really stopped pulling after I evened it up. The SD runs a tiny bit of differential caster to dial out its pull.

Good luck squiggle dog. The car is looking great mechanically. I’d be itching to get some paint or wrap on it.

Thanks for the detailed information on doing an alignment at home. The Specialty Products Company FastTrax tool looks really neat! With that and their spreader bar, I could probably do a good job on my own. But, for right now that would cost more than I can afford, so I'll just get an alignment done at a shop for now and then might buy the tools the next time it needs to be done.

I'm not sure why the front setting up higher than the rear, or the leaking steering damper would matter to the technician at all. It seems they would have no affect on the alignment.

I also don't understand the difference between camber and caster. I know what camber is, but isn't caster measurement of toe? It seems a wheel can only be adjustable in two directions--the direction it tilts in and out, and toe brought in and out. It seems caster is simply a measurement of toe angle?

I've been wanting to get my car painted for years, but it's just too expensive. It takes all I have just to keep it on the road mechanically. It has a lot of dents, rust, and body damage that would need to be repaired before it can even be painted. Maybe one of these days.

I pressure washed it, and while it did a great job of removing peeling clear coat, it knocked off a lot of paint and so there is a lot of primer showing through now.

Squiggle Dog · #11 07-24-2019, 11:58 PM

UPDATE! I couldn't live with the awful alignment, so with the assumption that the caster and camber are reasonably correct, I adjusted the tie rods until the steering wheel was perfectly straight when going down the road and there was no pulling. It appears the wheels were toed out about 1/16"--not good considering the force of driving tends to push the wheels outward anyway. I toed them in to about 1/32"-1/16", measuring in a few places after rolling the car back and forth and wiggling the steering wheel to make sure I got average measurements.

The car drives SO MUCH better now! The alignment feels perfect now that I've tweaked it. I don't even have to have my hands on the steering wheel to go in a straight line--whereas I kept having the turn the steering wheel right and left to keep it straight on the road after I got it back from the shop. It's apparent they didn't center the steering box in relation to the front wheels, so the steering box was constantly trying to center itself because it was askew even though the wheels were pointing straight ahead. It's doubtful they used a spreader bar or even realized why it's important. It looked like the only special tools they used to do the alignment were similar to the SPC Fastrax tool that ykobayashi mentioned. They didn't seem to have any alignment machines or computers.

I think the next time I need an alignment I'm just going to buy the tools to do it myself. Like they say, if you want something done right, do it yourself. This is yet another strike against having shops work on my car.

As a side note, I noticed that my roommate's 350SDL has about 1/4" of toe-in. Then again, it has worn parts, so it might just be slop.

funola · #12 07-25-2019, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

..................

They didn't seem to have any alignment machines or computers.

.............................

And you still let them work on your car and paid them? Sorry, that's totally on you!

Squiggle Dog · #13 07-25-2019, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

And you still let them work on your car and paid them? Sorry, that's totally on you!

You didn't even know these cars have camber and caster adjustment in the first place. I don't think alignment machines or computers are necessary, I just found it surprising they didn't have them. They have received rave reviews from people in the vintage car community and had worked on a 1979 W116 300SD right before mine. The Mercedes-Benz dealership even recommended them.

So I had no way of knowing they would fail to get it right, though I am always suspect of any alignment shop just because the procedure to align an old Mercedes is so different from other vehicles. I also had to actually drive the vehicle to see how good of a job they did, and only then did I know that they botched it.

Oh, well. I'm a big boy. I'm not going back and demanding a refund. I'm simply sharing my experience and what I did to correct it. The cost was low enough that I feel like I'm not out too much. If they got the caster and camber correct, then I feel it was worth what I paid.

vwnate1 · #14 07-25-2019, 04:30 PM

They don't need any computers unless the 'technician' doesn't know what they're doing .

Front end alignment is a tricky job, the better shops have older guys who know that each vehicle needs a test drive and tweak after the alignment jig is finished with it due to manufacturing tolerances, previous collision damage, on and on....

My best ever front end guy was an elderly ex Hot Rodder who could, would and did set up your vehicle depending on how you planned to use it .

Sadly like most old men sooner or later, he fell and broke his hip and that was that .

IMO, look for the shop that still has guys over 50 YO doing the work .

The BEAR alignment shop in Glendora , Ca. recently retired the old guy and the new one is a young pup who's lazy ~ my son took in his 2003 Chevy truck because it pulls to the right (almost always a caster issue) ans they charged him full freight to do the alignment and didn't even test drive it, when he called the young tech told him all he'd done was set the toe to spec....

Good thing he'd called as in person they'd have either fixed it on the spot or been punched out .

I try to get him to not be so touchy but he is anyway .

Squiggle Dog · #15 07-25-2019, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

They don't need any computers unless the 'technician' doesn't know what they're doing .

Front end alignment is a tricky job, the better shops have older guys who know that each vehicle needs a test drive and tweak after the alignment jig is finished with it due to manufacturing tolerances, previous collision damage, on and on....

My best ever front end guy was an elderly ex Hot Rodder who could, would and did set up your vehicle depending on how you planned to use it .

Sadly like most old men sooner or later, he fell and broke his hip and that was that .

IMO, look for the shop that still has guys over 50 YO doing the work .

The BEAR alignment shop in Glendora , Ca. recently retired the old guy and the new one is a young pup who's lazy ~ my son took in his 2003 Chevy truck because it pulls to the right (almost always a caster issue) ans they charged him full freight to do the alignment and didn't even test drive it, when he called the young tech told him all he'd done was set the toe to spec....

Good thing he'd called as in person they'd have either fixed it on the spot or been punched out .

I try to get him to not be so touchy but he is anyway .

This was a BEAR shop that had been in business since 1962 or thereabouts. The people working there were mostly probably in their 60s. The person who did the bulk of the work on mine was probably in his 20s or 30s. I saw one of the older guys get in my car and drive it off, but I don't know if he drove it down to road or just parked it.