My Custom 1980 W116 300SD Project Part 2 - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ROLLGUY · #1 05-08-2018, 08:43 PM

I am glad you are able to get the fittings you need in steel. However, I can probably get them to you for half the cost of what A/C parts warehouse sells them for. PM if you would like.....Rich

Squiggle Dog · #2 05-13-2018, 03:49 AM

ROLLGUY tried to help get a better deal on the compressor fittings, but acparts.com's prices were about as low as they get, so I ended up ordering from them. Unfortunately, a couple days later they called me and said most of the parts were out of stock, but they think they'll be able to order them and have them in stock next week. It seems I always need the odd-sized things.

I've been spending a lot of time trying to find replacement firewall grommets. So many of them are no longer available! Some other rubber parts I wanted to buy are ridiculous. $35 for a rubber boot for the pressure switch, $67 each for firewall drain tubes (fortunately I found some used ones), $119 for a little heater hose... I think the golden age for affordably owning a W116 and having good parts availability is starting to pass.

The manual climate control case I was planning to use is cracked. Fortunately, I have another one, but it doesn't have air conditioning. I think I will use the heater-only case because it's in better condition, and will put the air conditioning parts into it. Unfortunately, the W116 heating and air conditioning service manual states that in the event of evaporator leaks or flap malfunction in cases made before January 1979, the entire case assembly must be replaced because it is not possible to take it apart without damaging the case. What?! I'm hoping it's just because they used a mastic sealer between the parts, which can be replaced with butyl cord.

Another unfortunate thing I noticed is that both manual climate control cases I have only have two drains instead of four. Manual cllimate control cases with two drains:

The W116 heating and air conditioning service manual states that in September 1977, two additional drains were added for faster removal of condensate. The automatic climate control case with four drains:

With the way the cases are designed, I can't just swap the section of the automatic climate control case with the extra drains without having the extra parts on top like vacuum pods and ETR switch. I'd probably rather just live with only having two drains than having all those extra automatic climate control parts on top. But, I really want the two extra drains because I'm going to be running the air conditioning constantly, year-round. I might try to add two extra drains to the bottom of the manual climate control case. The only way I can think to add them that won't eventually leak and cause water to drip on the floor is to drill holes (there are molding lines where they would go) and then insert a plastic tube on each side and use a plastic welding system to run a bead on both the inside and outside so the tubes are firmly attached and won't leak.

GregMN · #3 05-13-2018, 07:52 AM

You live is AZ where the relative humidity is 14%, not FL where it is 98%.

Squiggle Dog · #4 05-14-2018, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

You live is AZ where the relative humidity is 14%, not FL where it is 98%.

But what if I decide to visit Florida?

I took apart the automatic climate control heater case from my car. It came apart without too much effort--mostly removing clips and being careful to not break the fragile plastic. I wanted to see how feasible it would be to cut the second set of drains from it and graft them onto the manual heater case either plastic welding or bonding them using methyl ethyl ketone. I also wanted to see the condition of the heater core and evaporator so I could pick out the best parts from the three heater cases I have.

As I expected, the evaporator was very dirty, mostly from debris that got sucked in through the rust holes in the firewall partition at the blower motor opening. I'll have to do some hole patching--perhaps I'll try welding in new metal (I have almost no welding experience).

The heater cases have been full of unpleasant surprises. One was discovering that the heater core in the manual heater cases is much smaller than the one the automatic climate control cars have. The surface area of the manual heater core is 13X5", or 65in². The surface area of each core in the automatic heater core is 7X6" or 42in²--making 84in² total, which is 19in² more surface area than the manual heater core. One thing I've enjoyed about my car is the massive amount of heat the heater would put out back when the heater worked and I lived in a cold climate. I definitely don't want to downsize the heater core!

Unfortunately, there isn't enough room to install the large version heater core in the manual climate control case, because the flaps which control how much air pressure from the blower motor is allowed to pass through the heater core, are in the way. With the manual heat system, the heater valve is either fully closed or fully opened, so the amount of cabin heat is regulated by these flaps.

Another disappointment I encountered was finding that the heater cases made before January 1979 (which is both of the manual cases I have) really aren't intended to be taken apart. The parts that did come off were glued with a mastic filler, and the rest seemed to be plastic welded together. So, like the heating and air conditioning service manual states, if the evaporator leaks, you cannot remove it without damaging the case, and the whole case assembly must be replaced. So stupid! So, most W116s have this type of case, which means that if the average owner's evaporator leaks, they can write off ever being able to use their air conditioning again.

So, I found myself being stuck with downsizing to a smaller heater core in order to use the manual case and having to use the broken case that's set up for air conditioning and already has an evaporator in it, while hoping it doesn't leak and then crying when it does--or cutting apart the uncracked case, installing the evaporator, and then somehow putting it back together. Either option didn't sound good to me.

I came up with a compromise; I plan on using the automatic climate control case from my car so I can use my large heater core and can remove and replace the evaporator if it ever leaks in the future. I'll also have the four drains. I inspected the cases that had only two drains--yikes! Condensation dripping off the evaporator goes through these skinny little rubber tubes (which were both clogged and torn) which route into heater core section--certainly not adequate!

I can't use the front part of the manual case on my automatic case because it doesn't have the grooves to hold the butyl sealing strips (remember the early cases just used mastic filler). So, I will need to remove the cable bracket from the manual case and rivet it onto the automatic case. I will also need to remove the vacuum pods on top of the automatic case and fill in the holes. It appears that I can use the lower part of the manual case with the control levers on mine--but I will need to cut away the plastic partition in the center. There are also plastic sheets over the flaps which would make the already seemingly impossible job of replacing the flap foam completely unfeasible unless those are cut off as well. Or--I could use the lower part from my case if I remove the vacuum pod (yes, they hid one in there, totally inaccessible!), drill holes for the control lever mounting and tap in the splined nuts.

Because I'll be using the automatic case and large heater core, that means the heat regulating flaps from the manual case can't be used. I decided this is fine because it's a lot of clunky linkage, more flaps needing new foam, and I drove my car for years with the heater valve either fully opened or closed with no complaints other than having to open the hood each time. Now that I'll actually have a blower that can operate at multiple speeds, I think this will be adequate. I'd rather lose some fine-tuning of the heat temperature than lose heating capacity.

I had thought about making the heater valve cable-actuated instead of by vacuum, but this would be a bit of a hassle to integrate into the system without making it look like a hack job. I also don't think that the slider levers are stout enough to handle that much resistance from a cable that long, especially if it gets gummed up. So, I am just going to leave it as intended with the heat lever on each side opening and closing the heater valve by vacuum. It will be a bit redundant having a heat lever on each side, but oh well. It's no different than the way it was intended other than the flaps won't be adjustable separately between the left and right sides.

Squiggle Dog · #5 06-21-2018, 05:56 AM

I've been facing some difficulties getting parts. Besides many parts being no longer available, I've been having issues with general air conditioning parts being difficult to find or out of stock in the type I need. ACParts.com was the only place I could find that had the compressor fittings I needed in steel. I ordered them and a few other parts on May 9th (a Wednesday), but immediately decided I needed to use a #8 reduced barrier hose, so I placed a second order for a reduced barrier hose and a couple reduced barrier fittings. I messaged them and asked if they would remove the #8 hose and fittings from the first order and combine my two orders to save on shipping. The salesman said he would adjust the two orders and combine shipping.

A couple days later I got a call saying the fittings were out of stock, but they should have them in stock by next Tuesday the 15th. On Friday the 18th, I emailed them and asked them if they had the fittings yet. The salesman wrote, "Everything left here yesterday sir sorry for the delay, had trouble getting a few of the fittings".

May 29th came (a week and a half later), and I never received the order, so I sent an email asking for a tracking number. The salesperson called me and said that it will be a few days before the parts ship. He said, "If you remember, per our last conversation, we were still waiting on two fittings that you ordered." I said, "I don't remember that. The last conversation was that the parts had already shipped the day before." Then he backtracked and said that the two fittings were holding up the order because they had to order in 6,000 fittings from the supplier just to get the two that I wanted, and it's going to take them at least another 2-3 days of hard work to sort through them to get my two fittings out of them. And then he said that they had a storm that knocked out the power and they were without electricity for a while, and all these other stories that sounded made-up. I told him that's it's been almost 3 weeks since I placed my order, and he said that usually ordering from them isn't like this, but I picked two fittings that are hard to get. But, he said he's going to "bird-dog it" and try to find a way to somehow get my fittings out of the pile and ship them off before too long.

On June 6th, nearly a month from the date I placed the order, it arrived. The order was correct other than they sent me regular #8 hose that was mislabeled as #8 reduced barrier hose. They also hadn't refunded my card for the parts I had cancelled and weren't shipped, nor for the second shipping charge--a total of $40.35 due back. I emailed ACParts.com and the next day the salesman said he would send it to someone else for corrections. I hadn't heard back, so on June 13th, nearly a week later, I emailed them again. A week from then, now the 20th, I still haven't gotten a response, so I disputed the purchase on my credit card. Maybe that will get some action. Meanwhile, I still need #8 reduced barrier hose.

One of the fittings I got from them was a #10 female O-ring 180 degree steel fitting. Unfortunately, it was too tall and hit the oil cooler line bracket. I tried to compress it down shorter, but it was really tough, so I put it between a jack and my parts car and squished it down that way. It was close, but just a little too far, so I carefully bent it back a little and it snapped. This is one of the fittings that I waited so long to get. I decided, though, that a 135 degree fitting would work better, but ACParts.com doesn't carry them. I looked and couldn't find anyone that sold them in steel, but then came across one on eBay, so I bought it.

I had previously placed an order from another place, called NostalgicAC.com, but didn't use any of it because I decided that it wouldn't work for what I wanted to do. They have a 60 day return policy with a 20% restocking fee, so I called them up because their website says I need to call to get a return goods authorization number. The lady that answered was really nice and I thought, "Finally, a place that will let me return items without making me feel like a criminal." She got me started, and then said, "Hold on a moment." Then this rough-sounding guy came on the phone and asked, "What's going on?! Now you want to return everything?" I told him that my plans for my project have changed and I'm going to have to use steel fittings instead of aluminum ones, and need R-12 service ports instead of R-134a, so I need to buy something different." He responded, "You ordered that hose online. I had to cut it, so you can't return it." I said, "That's fine." Then he said, "I can only take back the fittings. So I guess you're going to ship it all back to me?" I said, "Yes." Then he said, "Fine." and hung up. I thought, "I didn't even get a return authorization number." So, I called back and got the same guy. I told him that I had just spoken with him, and hadn't gotten a return goods authorization number. He sounded grouchy and said, "It's your order number!" and then hung up. I don't think I want to give them my business anymore, either!

I've also been having problems with packages being damaged in transit. There have been lots of delays, for sure.

For anyone interested, at the suggestion of floyd111, I started a GoFundMe campaign https://www.gofundme.com/squiggle-dog039s-116-project-research to raise money with some of the research I'm doing to find suitable replacement part numbers for no longer available W116 parts. Donations also fund this 300SD project, which would help a lot since I'm not currently working. I've already received donations. Amazing! I'm so grateful.

Now for some progress pictures! So, I decided against using a manual climate control case. They have four awkward flaps that regulate the air going to the heater core. The linkage is cumbersome and every flap jams up every single time on all three manual cases I have. They also have smaller heater cores, and I do not want to lose any heating capacity. I removed the vacuum pods on top of my automatic climate control case.

There were holes left behind and I wanted to fill them properly, ideally so that it looked like they were never there. I cut a chunk of plastic off of a lower flap housing to use as filler material.

I put it under the hole and traced the outline of the circle.

I cut out the circle with a Dremel tool and it was such a perfect fit that it stayed right in place.

I had a 20% off coupon and used one of the $15 Harbor Freight Plastic Welding Kit irons to melt the plastic circle into the case. This project was my first time attempting to weld plastic.

Squiggle Dog · #6 06-21-2018, 05:59 AM

In trying to make sure there were no low spots, I got carried away and ended up with globs of plastic.

I had to figure out how to level it out, and discovered Dremel has EZ-Lock sanding discs that looked ideal. Unfortunately, no place local seemed to carry them, but when I went to Lowe's, they had an accessory kit which included the EZ-Lock arbor and all the sanding discs for less money than it would have cost to buy just the arbor and discs separately.

The sanding discs did a good job of flattening the surface.

I found a box of high-quality Testors hobby sanding film and a headlight polishing kit in my garage, so I used those to sand and polish the surface.

Squiggle Dog · #7 06-21-2018, 06:01 AM

The results were less than perfect. I think that I used sanding discs and sheets that were too coarse, so I wasn't able to sand the scratches out completely. Some of the plastic I filled in also seemed to have air bubbles or shrunk, so the holes that were once there weren't undetectable like I had hoped. But, it was my first time attempting this. Looking back, I probably should have just left the globs of plastic. I actually tried brushing acetone on the surface to remove the scratches from the sandpaper, and though it filled them, it left a bumpy surface which I had to sand AGAIN. I also filled in the holes where the ETR switch and copper probe tube used to be.

The boot that goes between the case and the blower motor case was held on with clips and three rivets, as was the rubber cover on the opposite side. In order to facilitate changing of these parts in the future, I drilled out the rivets...

...and replaced them with M4 0.7mm stainless steel press-fit nuts for plastic from McMaster-Carr. To install them, I drilled the holes larger with a 1/4" drill bit and then carefully tapped them into place while supporting the backside with a metal autobody tool. They work very well.

vwnate1 · #8 07-06-2018, 11:58 PM

Good work here ! .

Squiggle Dog · #9 07-12-2018, 03:00 PM

I have to say that I am very frustrated with the business practices of some companies these days. Well over a month ago (June 4th), I placed an order with MBOEMParts.com and I still have not received it all. A box with some of the parts arrived, and then on the June 16th, I got an email informing me that the rest of the parts were on the way, and was given a tracking number. I followed the tracking number from Illinois to the sorting facility here in Arizona. On the day it was supposed to arrive, the FedEx truck never stopped by. So, I checked the tracking number and it said that the package was damaged in transit and was being returned to the shipper. In the meantime, I've been emailing MBOEMParts.com, asking them for updates. They are completely ignoring me. I finally had to initiate a dispute on my credit card, and am still awaiting to hear back.

ACParts.com has been completely ignoring me for over a month, despite my constantly messaging them asking for them to please take care of the wrong parts they sent, and to refund me for the order they never sent, plus the shipping. I couldn't wait anymore, so I just bought some premade hoses from Klima Design Works and filled out Return Goods Authorization Forms so I could send my entire order back to ACParts.com. They never responded to those. So, I had to initiate a dispute on my credit card for both of the transactions with them. This is ridiculous! Keep in mind that I placed the orders on May 9th.

The seam sealer in the cowl still hasn't fully cured even after a week with it being 114F, so in the meantime I've been working on the blower motor case. I'm using one from a manual system, but it turns out those don't have a 100% recirculating air feature. The flap moves upward and creates at best an 80% cabin air, 20% outside air mixture. I want the 100% recirculating cabin air feature for maximum air conditioning performance so the 120F desert heat isn't warming up the cabin air.

So, in order to have 100% recirculating air, I took apart the blower motor case from my car so I could transplant the flap and sealing surface onto the one I will be using. The case comes apart with clips, but of course there's also a rivet holding it together, making removal more difficult. I drilled it out.

Once the case was apart, I was able to drill out the rivet holding the piece of the case I needed to remove that's accessible from inside, and then drilled out the rivets on the outside.

The flap sealing piece is removed and can be transplanted onto the manual case.

To remove the flap, I pried back the tabs so it could be lifted away from the bar, and then the bar was slid out.

The flap on top is the one removed from the automatic climate control blower motor case. It's flat and designed to have foam on each side. The one on the bottom is the one from the manual case I will be using, and it has a lip and wasn't set up for recirculating air. All it really did was seal off the cabin air during defrosting and then raise up to allow a mixture of cabin and outside air the rest of the time.

Squiggle Dog · #10 07-12-2018, 03:02 PM

There is another flap inside the manual blower motor case which adjusts the flow of air dependent on the speed of the blower motor for microtuning of air flow. I put new 1/8" thick extra soft high temperature resilient silicone foam on it. The plastic retainers weren't staying in place, so I had to use a heat gun and wedge the prongs apart with a thick flat blade screwdriver so there would be enough tension to hold them in place. This probably wouldn't have been necessary if I didn't use such firm foam.

I cleaned up the recirculating air flap from the automatic case, put new 1/8" thick high temperature resilient silicone foam with adhesive back on both sides, and installed it in the case. I tried to install the plastic retainers on both sides, but unlike the other flap I did, the plastic retainers would not stay in place. So, I had to remove them and fill the little holes in the foam with some twelve-year-old POR-Patch clear seam sealer that I had. I would liked to have used new foam, but I didn't have any left, didn't want to spend over $40 for another 12"X12" square of it, and then deal with having to cut it out and fit it into place. The automatic cases with 100% recirculating air had a foam strip that seals against the flap, so I installed one in the manual case.

I put new 3/16" diameter neoprene foam cord from McMaster-Carr (the same stuff I used in the climate control case) in between the blower motor case halves.

Installing the rivet that helps hold the case halves together. Once again, McMaster-Carr came through. I needed 5/32" rivets for 3/16"-1/4" material thickness. Of course, none of the hardware stores carried them, and any hope I'd have of getting them would be to drive downtown in this heat. McMaster-Carr had some all-aluminum sealing ones (97524A114) that were identical to the ones Mercedes used. I ordered them online Wednesday afternoon, and they were delivered to my door the next day.

I installed the recirculating air flap sealing piece with sealant and rivets. Figuring out where to drill the holes was tricky, and I had to fill the holes with hot plastic and re-drill until I got it perfect. Now this blower case will have a recirculating air function, and with much less parts than the one my car originally had. One vacuum pod and one cable are all that control the flaps.

vwnate1 · #11 07-12-2018, 04:14 PM

I'm not 100 % sure I'd want 100% recirculated air.....

You're Oh, so right about vendors these days ~ Pelican Parts doesn't have anyonw who understands anything about parts in their ordering section so now every time I place an order they want to go back and forth about 'do you really want this part ?' and 'are you sure you want to willcall it ?' plus the ever popular "I have to have the VIN before ordering this part' when it's a W123 part that has NO OTHER CHOICES .

Jesus H. Keerist, get with the program please .

Squiggle Dog · #12 07-12-2018, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

I'm not 100 % sure I'd want 100% recirculated air.....

You're Oh, so right about vendors these days ~ Pelican Parts doesn't have anyonw who understands anything about parts in their ordering section so now every time I place an order they want to go back and forth about 'do you really want this part ?' and 'are you sure you want to willcall it ?' plus the ever popular "I have to have the VIN before ordering this part' when it's a W123 part that has NO OTHER CHOICES .

Jesus H. Keerist, get with the program please .

The 100% recirculated air is supposed to only happen when the air conditioning is on the highest setting. The rest of the time it would be set taking in outside air. The blower motor case that's original to my car did 100% recirculated air on the maximum setting. The manual blower motor case I'm going to use did not, so I just altered it so that it would and I wouldn't be losing the 100% recirculating air feature at maximum cooling.

Colorado220 · #13 07-16-2018, 05:02 PM

Way awesome bud! I bet your car loves you! Will be following this!

Squiggle Dog · #14 07-21-2018, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado220

Way awesome bud! I bet your car loves you! Will be following this!

Thank you!

I brushed etching primer on the cowl and painted it with leftover POR-15 Hardnose paint that I bought twelve years ago for my 1965 International Travelall.

I covered the cowl partition with lots of 3M Dynatron seam sealer, and primed and painted it. It shouldn't rust ever again!

Here's the wire harness that will control the blower motor for the climate control, removed from my parts car. The firewall grommet that used to hold all the vacuum lines for the climate control got the holes plugged with black 1/4" pull-through plugs ordered from McMaster-Carr.

I fed the wire harness through the tubing where the original wire harness was. I had to hook a wire hanger section onto the connector on each wire and pull them through one at a time. It was tricky and I was very worried about damaging the wires.

Finishing up the custom wire harness.

Squiggle Dog · #15 07-21-2018, 02:15 PM

Fortunately, the sheet metal under the insulation wasn't rusty.

I installed new rubber grommets for the climate control case drains.

Don't use Rubber Renue! I had four rubber drains that fit on the bottom of the climate control case that were in good condition, other than being a little hardened at the bottom. I decided I would soak them in Rubber Renue, which is supposed to make rubber soft and supple again. It destroyed them, so now I have to buy new ones.

The climate control case is in, which is a big milestone. I should be on track to getting the air conditioning working and the car put back together so I can drive it to the Helper Arts Festival in Utah next month.