Shave about 3% off my data to correct for altitude (it's 2700' up here). That should give you a rough ballpark for comparison.



Yep, eventually I'll try a 1992 4.2L ECU, and also a 5.0L ECU. Which part number did you try, btw? I may not change the exhaust or intake, but we'll see. It's got ASR, heated seats, roller blind, rear reading lamps, and orthopedic seats - kinda cool. WIP = work in progress, it needs some odds & ends taken care of. If I like how it turns out, I may sell this one and look for a lower-miles E420 as a long-term keeper. This one is 199 black with black interior, but I'd prefer Garnet Red Metallic (with all the same options - I know, I know... fat chance.) For now it will be my wife's race car.



After driving it in stock form, GEEZ, how do you TOLERATE those gears? They are just STUPID! You can get a 2.65 for ~$250 and it's 100% bolt-in! That would be my preferred setup. I may put the 2.82 in there just because I'll have one left over from the 500 when that gets the LSD transplant in springtime. But first, I need to get AP-22 performance data as a baseline for comparison, for future mods...

014 545 64 32 from a 93 5.0 S class built in 8/92. (Remember how upset I was that it wasn't a month or two older?) Remember, I had to remove the K29/1 relay from position "G" in the relay box because the S class donor was apparently a non-first gear start car and mine is a first gear start car. Remember the strange trans. behavior I had at first?

Every time I look at the tach. when I'm doing 80 MPH and see how low the eng. is revving and I think about things like reduced eng. wear and less fuel consumption, it brings a smile to my face. That is how I tolerate those gears. Remember, this car is my main source of transportation.

You are a better husband than I am. My wife has to make do with our beloved 89 M-103 W-124.

How many miles on the E420? What do you think of my 5.0 swap idea?
Regards, Eric

I see alot of talk on this thread about first gear start modules. Has anyone considered swapping the trans to a 722.6. That would gain a 5th gear overdrive and a selectable first gear start on the shifter plus a lockup converter.

__________________
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John Roncallo

Oh, I've considered it all right. I want one in ALL of my cars! I can't afford it though. There's a guy in Seattle who can do the conversion, approx cost is $5-$6k including a used 722.6 tranny. But he needs the car in Seattle to dial in the computer (has to drive it, to be able to program the aftermarket controller, after the mechanical installation). That would be the Holy Grail though... it would allow a nice 3.06 rear end, which would become a 2.51 after the 0.82 overdrive reduction in top gear.

Ah, got it. I have a spare one of those '93 S-class 5.0 modules if you know anyone who wants one, I'll sell it pretty cheap. I recall you had strange trans behavior but I don't recall the specifics, or the fix. Sounds like it's working normally now?



I'd like to find out exactly what the fuel economy loss would be with 2.65 gears. I bet it's less than 5%. I'd be happy with that tradeoff.



Oh, don't worry, my wife's daily driver is still the 2.5 diesel! The look on her face was priceless the first time she drove the E420, and applied 80% throttle from a stop (which is normal procedure on the 2.5). Heh-heh...



Yep, I was thinking along the same lines myself. You can get 5.0 motors stupidly cheap these days. I've seen complete S500's for under $4k in acceptable condition. You could re-sell it as an S420. What I'd prefer is to build a 6.0 motor for my .036 and put the leftover 5.0 into the E420, that would be one awesome sleeper. Gotta wait until I win the lottery on that one though (6.0 builds are spendy). Seriously, a 5.0 swap into an E420 would be the best bang for the buck. There are a half-dozen 5.0 motors available for $750-$900 with 100-150k on them. Add $150 for a 2.65 diff. My dilemma would be what to badge the hybrid... an E420 with a 5.0 doesn't quite add up to an E500. Maybe an E50 badge would be more appropriate. The more I think about this idea, the more I like it...

Yes everything is working normally now.
Maybe you won't need to swap gears after the 5.0 swap.
There's no dilemma what to badge it----Like you said, "awesome sleeper". Why mess that up by re-badging it?

Yes Roncallo, I'd like the 5 spd. as well, We've discussed this at length at 500Ecstasy.com. Right now I'm looking at an ad for a "mint cond." "low mileage" 97 E420 (Auto&TruckBuysSouth-Recycler.com) for $5500 obo which means I can get the whole car for what Seattle Man wants for just the trans swap---no thanks. Here's some of what I said on this topic at the other site: Imagine, a next gen. E-class with headlights that actually kinda light the way (what a concept!), a double control arm front suspension instead of the cheap strut set-up (which looks way too much like the Ford "Fox" platform design--am I the only one who noticed this?), distributorless ignition (finally! MB catches up with the 89 SC T-bird!). [yeah, I've added a bit more this time]. For $5500 I could do a STS turbo and be so fast I wouldn't need to swap the trans. or the gears! Installing that turbo would be easier than installing that trans.!

I know a lot of people prefer the W-124---Me too! But ...

Maybe this swap makes sense for a $20,000 500E/E500, but not for a $5,000 400E/E420. I'll just keep my 2.24 gears. I'm already running 14s. That's good enough to hold my own against the wannabes in the trucks and SUVs (which tend to be what I have the most trouble with out there. The guys in the truly fast cars generally behave themselves). And from a roll I do way more than simply hold my own.

What I proposed then (and now) is that someone who has done this swap post a "How to" thread so we can do the swap ourselves. It's definitely a difficult job but not worth $5500. Regards, Eric

400Eric, I think that you are kind of missing something here. The only cost that would be saved by doing the install yourself would be the physical installation of the system. It will still cost around 3500-4000 in materials. You are correct though that the actual physical job is not difficult. And if anyone would like to do it themselves and by a tcu, I will be happy to sell all the needed items from PCS.
The tune may or may not be adapted. But it would be nearly impossible for me to help from a distance. It is not really a question of making it work as much as getting the shifts to an acceptable point.
If you do not care if it shifts like a brick I can help you from a distance.

My main point is that it is simply not a cost effective mod for the reasons I already stated. $5500 could be used more effectively. The amount of bang is not worth the bucks. Not even at $3500. It's OK though, it seems that a lot of MB guys like to spend money. You'll have plenty of takers. I don't mean to sound harsh, just trying to state clearly another viewpoint. I myself am thinking long and hard about a 97 C36 with one of those five speeds already factory installed. Regards, Eric

Read here about another mod that can be done on M-119 W-124 cars.http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-performance-paddock/245997-tuning-cis-post2132868.html#post2132868 Regards, Eric

Read here about another mod that can be done on M-119 W-124 cars. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=2132868#post2132868
My 93 400E has now run a un-corrected 14.72@95.51! (14.44@97.405 corrected)
Regards, Eric

The 400e FGS relay interfaces to the ecu and kickdown switch, not unlike how the W126 or the Bergwerks FGS module works.

You should be able to use any M119 transmission in the 400e and maintain the FGS without issue, are you sure there were not issues with the valve body of the S class transmission?

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1993 500E
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The only part I used from the S-class was the 5.0 LH ECU. After I removed that K29/1 relay, everything went back to normal. Regards, Eric

Ah, I see, that would explain why the FGS system was not working then.

Thanks for clarifing.

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1993 500E
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It was still working---just not working right. I still had a first gear start but the car was skipping 2nd under part throttle and had other issues as well. I went into it in great detail on Scott's 500E website---I wish I could link you to it. Regards, Eric