Gun Banning perspective... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

732002 · #1 12-24-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I wrote the stuff in the other paragraphs first destracting Me from the obvious. In the case of the recent Murders we don't know who the Guy planned to shoot or even if He had a plan. But, if someone had mannaged to get away duing a Magazine Change it appears that He simply would have shot someone else that came along because there was no one there to stop Him from doing that.

It actually has already been done.
Back in the Civil War Quantrill’s Guerilla Riders besides the Revolvers on their Belt carried a bunch of other Revolvers in Holsters on their Saddle.

I find it difficult to imagine how Children could have gotten away even if a Magazine would have needed to have been changed. A lot of School Rooms only have one Door in and out.

I have not read that a 30 round Magazine was used in this recent Crime but I could have missed that.

Semiautomatic Pistols are extremely fast to change magazines on. When one Magazine is empty the Slide on the Gun is automatically held back. Typically you press a Button and the Empty Magazine falls out, at the same time you are doing that you are have hold of the full Magazine and already have it on the way to the Gun.
You slide it in and depress the Slide Release and a new Cartridge goes into the chamber and the Gun is now loaded.
And, you don't even need to see the Mgazine or Gun to to do that meaning a Person is watching the Target.

In CA they only allow 10 Shots pere Magazine. So in the case of the the recent Murders if He had on ly one gun that would have been 2 Magazine changes.

Changing a Rifle Magazine is slightly slower because the Rifle and Magazine are more cumbersom.

Not an expert but I been in the Army I have some experience with a real Assult Rifle and Automatic Piston.
My Father bought Me My First Rifle when I was about 9 years old and I have done a lot of reading/studying of civilian and Military Firearms as well as Historical stuff.

In the end I can't think of any way this sort of Murder could have been totally prevented because it was evidently planned.
I have mentioned better School Security as a deterent but someone could climb over or cut through most Fences that Schools have and enter the School that way.

Having armed Security Guards might have helped, but there is a risk that one of the Guards might fip out and become a Murder (the same with armed Teachers).
Also if someone knows there is Security Guard they would be the first ones shot.

Of all the things that run through My mind on the best deterrent I can think of is increased School Security that prevents anyone from bringing any Weapons or other illegal stuff into the School.

The real question is how much firepower we want to be legal. Freedom vs public safety. Sure in the past multiple six guns were used, so what, in the more distant past multiple muzzle loading pistols were carried. Interesting facts that prove nothing.......

t walgamuth · #2 12-24-2012, 06:03 PM

Although it may be a minor point, if a gunman has to stop and reload every ten rounds it gives people a chance to rush him while he is doing it.

Benz Fan · #3 12-24-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Although it may be a minor point, if a gunman has to stop and reload every ten rounds it gives people a chance to rush him while he is doing it.

Oh sure, Tom! This year it'll be a 10-round limit. Next year, a nine-round limit! Soon we'll be limited to six-round revolvers. It's a slippery slope designed to weaken the ability of true Americans to go into the woods and shoot-up old console TV's with large-magazined semiauto rifles.

Dubyagee · #4 12-24-2012, 07:32 PM

Bored.

Anyway,

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Although it may be a minor point, if a gunman has to stop and reload every ten rounds it gives people a chance to rush him while he is doing it.

What if he had more than one gun?

Benz Fan · #5 12-24-2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

Bored.

Anyway,

What if he had more than one gun?

What are the gun control policies in your country?

jplinville · #6 12-24-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benz Fan

What are the gun control policies in your country?

We know yours by your posts.

He's an American citizen...

Benz Fan · #7 12-24-2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

We know yours by your posts.

He's an American citizen...

Uh huh. And let me guess, you claim to be an American citizen as well?

retmil46 · #8 12-25-2012, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Although it may be a minor point, if a gunman has to stop and reload every ten rounds it gives people a chance to rush him while he is doing it.

That's the theory at least. But I doubt that many people would be willing to bet their life (literally) on that chance. Any slim odds of success are going to be HIGHLY dependent on individual circumstances.

In that case, I'd actually PREFER that the attacker was using one of these "poseur assault" rifles - large cumbersome weapon compared to a handgun, larger and bulkier magazines and rounds (fewer he'd be able to carry), and depending on the design of the rifle a more complicated reloading procedure.

With a modern semiauto handgun, if the attacker is familiar and practiced at swapping magazines, you might be lucky if you had all of 5 seconds to realize he was out of ammo and commit yourself to rushing him, before he had a fresh clip slammed home and was firing again - I doubt very many people are going to have that kind of sangfroid or presence of mind.

Essentially, a second or two after his last round is fired out of his present magazine, you''ll hear PLUNK-SLAP-CLANK - the empty clip dropping out of the gun, a full clip being slapped in, and the receiver being released and slamming home - and he's firing again. It took longer to type those 3 words describing the sounds, than it would for someone practiced at speed swapping clips in a handgun to actually do it.

It really doesn't make a damn to me what number they come up with as far as the ammo capacity of a clip for ANY firearm - but the above is part of the reason many of us are rolling our eyes at talk of banning "high capacity" magazines, as if that was in any way going to be a meaningful part of a solution - at the best, all it might do is limit the body count under the right circumstances - and IMO in any future events such as this it's more likely it won't matter one whit how many rounds are in each individual magazine - people will still end up dead - but at least the pols will have cover for having "done something" about the problem.

t walgamuth · #9 12-25-2012, 06:47 AM

Any person with the inclination to think it through and rush a gunman while he reloads would have the mental facilities to notice the reloading rythem and take advantage of it.

Diesel911 · #10 12-24-2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 732002

The real question is how much firepower we want to be legal. Freedom vs public safety. Sure in the past multiple six guns were used, so what, in the more distant past multiple muzzle loading pistols were carried. Interesting facts that prove nothing.......

Facts are facts; People over 100 years ago found away to get around the limitaitons set by their primative Fire Arms.

The same thing will be done by someone willing to break the Law to avoid legal limitations set on Fire Arms. So I don't agree that what you have planned will increase Public Safety.

And, for Me it is not just a loss of Freedom I worry about.
If the Anti-gun Folks got the laws and restrictions passed they want passed they would turn Me into a Crimminal with Me just sitting here and doing nothing.

732002 · #11 12-26-2012, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Facts are facts; People over 100 years ago found away to get around the limitaitons set by their primative Fire Arms.

The same thing will be done by someone willing to break the Law to avoid legal limitations set on Fire Arms. So I don't agree that what you have planned will increase Public Safety.

And, for Me it is not just a loss of Freedom I worry about.
If the Anti-gun Folks got the laws and restrictions passed they want passed they would turn Me into a Crimminal with Me just sitting here and doing nothing.

The fact is that five six shot guns don't have the firepower of one thirty round clip in a "assault" rifle. And the person with the assault rifle can carry extra clips and reload in seconds.

elchivito · #12 12-26-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 732002

The fact is that five six shot guns don't have the firepower of one thirty round clip in a "assault" rifle. And the person with the assault rifle can carry extra clips and reload in seconds.

While it may be a small point to those who are anti-gun, in a discussion it's always a good idea to use correct terminology. You give away your ignorance of shooting by using the term "clip".

Please, it's a 30 round magazine, not a clip.

A magazine feeds rounds into the chamber of a gun. A clip is used on some weapons to feed rounds into the magazine. (M1 Garand for example).

In short, a clip loads a magazine
a magazine loads a GUN

jplinville · #13 12-26-2012, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

While it may be a small point to those who are anti-gun, in a discussion it's always a good idea to use correct terminology. You give away your ignorance of shooting by using the term "clip".

Please, it's a 30 round magazine, not a clip.

A magazine feeds rounds into the chamber of a gun. A clip is used on some weapons to feed rounds into the magazine. (M1 Garand for example).

In short, a clip loads a magazine
a magazine loads a GUN

Also, an assault rifle has a selector switch, allowing it to fire full auto. The weapons included in the AWB from 1994, and in the proposed ban, do not meet this criteria.

This is a clip...

This is a magazine...

Txjake · #14 12-26-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

While it may be a small point to those who are anti-gun, in a discussion it's always a good idea to use correct terminology. You give away your ignorance of shooting by using the term "clip".

Please, it's a 30 round magazine, not a clip.

A magazine feeds rounds into the chamber of a gun. A clip is used on some weapons to feed rounds into the magazine. (M1 Garand for example).

In short, a clip loads a magazine
a magazine loads a GUN

righto: and, some shotguns have detachable magazines, as do some "non-assualt" rifles lik ethe Browning Automatic rifle (the huntng rifle, not the autorifle from the military)

Diesel911 · #15 12-26-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 732002

The fact is that five six shot guns don't have the firepower of one thirty round clip in a "assault" rifle. And the person with the assault rifle can carry extra clips and reload in seconds.

Someone planning to do that would carry more guns or to reload a Revolver use a Speed Loader.

No one has even spoken of the possible use of a Shotgun!