I was for a different reason but I read similar stuff concerning Bombs. They were speaking in more of a revolutionary type sense.

It said that when People did not have guns to fight with made Bombs. The simplest being Fire Bombs of the Molotove Coctail type.

The NRA somewhat represents the Members. If you go to someplace like Wikipedia it is also listed as a powerful Lobby. I cannot in of itself create laws.
What ever power the NRA has comes from the Members not unlike a Unions Political Funds.
But, more powerful than the NRA is the Media.

In California you cannot legally sell someone a Gun like you do in Texas; but illegal sales happen just like that.
And, that is certainly part of My point. A person having decided to comit Murder is not going to care if a Gun is leagally obtained.

In the Bible it does not say what Cain Killed Able with but because Cain had the will to do that Able was killed.
In this thread we have been talking about what a Modren day Cain might use as a weapon; and just as with the First Murder the Will to Murder is still the most important factor in preventing a Murder.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Is that private information? Can it be searched for in another way such as tax records? If not that was grossly irresponsible on there part of the paper and should be prosecuted if laws were broken.

Perhaps the gun owners should lock up their weapons. After all, like you said, stolen guns are often used in the commission of a crime.

That is why I have been saying gun owners need to be held responsible for their guns. If your gun gets stolen and used in a crime, you should be held at least in part, liable for the crime as well.

When the NRA actually steps up to the plate and starts to advocate gun owner responsibility then I might believe that the NRA actually believes in responsible gun ownership.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

He did say the person would need to be trained; I would assume you taught your Son something about shooting the Gun.

He did not say what Positon the Shooter would use but it sounds like your Son had very favorable conditions.

And, beside that He could be a better shot than most.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

That very may very well be true. How ever I am willing to bet if the person selling the gun is held liable for the crime as well they may have second thoughts about selling the gun to someone who has not been checked out.

If you have the will but not the ability then the will is somewhat secondary. There are very few alternatives to a gun that can be concealed as easily, kill as efficiently or as precisely, kill as clean, and target as accurately without endangering the user. That is why guns are so popular. They are pretty much the apex of killing tools.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I had to think on this one a bit. I believe the only way a Seller could be held liable for the illegal use of an item would be if the Seller had prior knowlege that the item was going to be used for an illegal purpose.

As an example I could sell a Hammer to someone at a Yard sale and they could take it Home and kill or injure some one with it. I that case I don't think I should be responsible for what the Buyer does with the Hammer.

On the other hand if the Guy said I want to buy that Hammer because He needed it to beat his Wife With and I sold it and He did that then I would be liable.

Some of this is true. But, we have been speculating what a person who wants to kill might of might not do.
Back in one of My posts I mentiond where a Man in Chicago I think it was lit and Illegal Ngith Club (at this time it was in some Warehouse) on Fire and the killed 211 People (I believe they said most of the Deaths were caused by Smoke inhalation).
I don't know if that is something the recent Murdere could have done or not.

What He did did not endanger Him at all and He did not kill himself so I assume He planned to get away with it.

The point of the above is that it is the Human Brain that is the real weapon.

Also sort of like replaying a Foot Ball Game we know what happend and are now saying if this happend or did not happen the out come would have been different.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

That is why person to person sales with out a back ground check should be banned. Lets give the hammer analogy crap a rest OK. A hammer is not a gun. The firemen were not killed with a hammer. The kids in the various school shootings were not killed with a hammer. They were killed with a gun. So lets deal with the guns first and then we can deal with the hammers if they indeed pose a problem.


Two simple things should take place.

Guns should be issued with titles of ownership and any sales should require back ground checks and transfer of title. If you sell a gun with out a check or transfer the gun with out the check it is still your gun and you are responsible for it.

Secondly all guns should be required to be locked up when not in use. If your gun is stolen you better have been mugged (that would be ironic huh) or your safe better have it's door blown off. If your gun is stolen and you did not take the necessary safe guards then your butt is liable for the use of the gun.

What's the big deal?

Yep, there are exceptions to every rule. No one knows if he wanted to use a gun and could not so he relied on a fire. Possible he was a pyromaniac and fire would have been his first choice.

All guns should be secured in a certified safe when not in use.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

What I find interesting about this thread is that I have enough faith in the Common Man I don't feel threatened. Apparently that is not the same thought that others have.

The Medias coverage of this event or others concerning Violence does not convinced Me that Myself or anyone in My Family is likely to be a Victim simply because it happens too infrequently.

Any, more then I believe when I get in My Car I am going to be involved in a life or limb threatening accident. (And, I was in an Auto Accident that broke three Ribs an collapsed one Lung.)

When you thoughts are driven by Fear your ability to think decreases and your thoughts become reactionary and the decisions made are often poor ones and sometimes dangerous ones.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

What I find interesting about this thread is that I have enough faith in the Common Man I don't feel threatened. Apparently that is not the same thought that others have.

The Medias coverage of this event or others concerning Violence does not convinced Me that Myself or anyone in My Family is likely to be a Victim simply because it happens too infrequently.

Any, more then I believe when I get in My Car I am going to be involved in a life or limb threatening accident. (And, I was in an Auto Accident that broke three Ribs an collapsed one Lung.)

When you thoughts are driven by Fear your ability to think decreases and your thoughts become reactionary and the decisions made are often poor ones and sometimes dangerous ones.

What ever I do finally die from I want to have lived with the same rights I was born with; and those same Rights unaltered.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Seems pretty narcissistic. There are 8,000+ people every year who probably thought the same thing.

I'm not scared, I'm fed up. There is a difference.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

The fact is that five six shot guns don't have the firepower of one thirty round clip in a "assault" rifle. And the person with the assault rifle can carry extra clips and reload in seconds.

I am not sure what narcissism is all about but 8000 people out of "As of December 1, 2012, the United States had a total resident population of 315,005,000, making it the third most populous country in the world. It is a very ... " compared to the total population seems small.

Certainly small enough not to evoke a reaction of fear in Me.
Since I have already had one Car Accident where I was badly and partly permently injured I would have to think that is a more likely method of Me getting killed.

"Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder[1] in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity. This condition affects one percent of the population.[2][3] First formulated in 1968, it was historically called megalomania, and it is closely linked to egocentrism."

Looking at the above definition I have to say it does not fit Me. I mean I am sitting here wearing Pants, Coat and Shoes I bought from a 2nd had Store (the Shoes were new). This hardly projects an image of a Vain person trying to effect even a powerful look or prestige.

If you passed Me on the Street and I had not shaved fore 4-5 days and I frequently don't do that; in My normal state of dress I more resemble a Homeless Person (except that I am clean).

I frequently wear Camouflage Pants or Coats of other Military attire (I know what you are thinking; no Arm Bands).
I suppose that might be interpreted as trying to project Power.
But, those Clothing suit My Life Style; old House, old Cars, Old Truck and so on.

When I joined the Army in 1970 I went in as a Medic so My job would not be to have to Shoot or maim anyone even though I have had a Fire Arm since I was about 9 years old.
So if I wanted to kill Folks I missed out on My Chance.

I have absolutely no moral scruples about defending My life or Limb or the same for someone else’s I want to protect.

But, like I said in the other post I don't fear the Common People (gun owners or not) are going to do harm to Me of My Family.
Ya, I know logically that it is not impossible for something bad to happen but I don't let that get into me emotionally to cause a Fear reaction; flight or fight.

And, I am certainly not going to let the Media jerk My emotions arond and pull My strings like a Puppet.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/israelis-shoot-nra-claim-article-1.1226401

Now you have made my point. I said a very small amount of ordinary people could hit a man at 100 yards. I did not say it but I also meant readily available handguns without any tripods bean bags or special aiming aids.

If you want to talk about olympic grade marksmen shooting match ammo with match style armament, its a whole different matter.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

So out of a random selection of 1000 people, how many do you suppose could do it?

(I'm not sure why but you seem bent on proving points I am not asking about and ignoring my simple questions).

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Because I'm an argumentative prick when it comes to the topic of gun control.

Blanket statements about gun owners don't make an argument...it's like saying all black people are criminals because there's a high number of their color in prison. It's a stupid argument, and a stupid comment.

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1987 560SL
85,000 miles