Zimmerman verdict - Page 20 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #**286** 07-15-2013, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

This speaks more about you then Z.

He faced the law head on combined with the push of real race baiting opportunists and still was cleared. Now the bitter are making threats.

It is unfortunate and I don't condone it but that is one reason one needs to be careful in the world. It's possible to screw up bad enough such that you become infamous. GZ started the chain in motion with his far end of the scale racial profiling and activity around that.

MTUpower · #**287** 07-15-2013, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruchase

The scenario you describe bears very little resemblence to TM & GZ. Fact is TM was walking along casually when GZ spotted him and figured he looked "suspicious". Suspicious has a very different meaning for different folks.

We know from GZ's 911 call that he was under the impression that TM was up to no good; however, he had no factual basis to make that assertion. It was purely based on his instincts, which were clearly wrong. Had GZ been a real cop, he might've known he would've had to have probable cause to stop/question an individual; however, we know from the events that night that GZ indeed profiled TM, and concluded simply based on TM's physical appearance that he was a hoodlum.

Part of living in a free society is being able to walk without the fear of being harassed simply for how you look. Had someone actually witnessed TM do something illegal, then GZ (and any LEO) would have every reason to follow him and possbly search/arrest him.

Walking in the rain; looking into homes and cutting in between residences in an area where break-ins have occurred is not suspicious?? That would be probable cause to an LEO. How do you know GZ's instincts were "clearly wrong"?? How do you know that TM was not about to/ considering break(ing) into a house? Did you read TM's mind that night?

MTUpower · #**288** 07-15-2013, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

ACtually I knew they could not identify the voice but did not know why.

My question was meant to ask if you had watched it on TV as much as they showed?

What you meant to ask and what you asked were two completely different questions. I can only answer what you ask since I failed mind reading school; just ask my wife.

Now I'll answer what you asked, second time around. Did I watch "as much as they showed"??

Tom are you on something or are you drinking lately? Who in this world could do that? Since the trial was on multiple channels that showed varying portions of the trial no one could watch "as much as they showed" unless you TIVO'd all the channels and then reviewed every channel. I'm sure some poor sap paid by the networks did that but not me. So no I did not TIVO all the channels and then review each channel. But then I didn't opine on things which I did not watch or know something of.

MTUpower · #**289** 07-15-2013, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Some people are more prone to fear than others. The part you ignore in that line of thought is: were his fears rational, at any point in the drama? I submit that they were not. His fear led him to create a confrontation, one in which he had deadly force on his person.

I gotta give it to spd: "He brought a gun to a fistfight."

One major unknown in this drama, surely not a point we could count on GZ to be forthcoming about, is: did GZ flash his gun at TM at any point? One of those, "watch out, I'm armed, you best comply with my instructions until police get here" ? TM could well have had more cause to be in fear of his life. A man not a policeman was following him and (possibly) displayed a gun, certainly was toting one. GZ initiated this drama and played the insecure, naïve fool throughout it.
...

Yeah, I've got a gun so let's get in a fist fight.

I've seen some stupid people with guns but I've never seen or heard of THAT stupid. Is that how you think it went down? Really? Let's take a poll and guess how many agree with you....

neumann · #**290** 07-15-2013, 10:18 PM

read this on another forum...

None of these things would have happened if when asked "who are you?" Trayvon has simply said, "Hi, Im Trayvon Martin, My step dad lives here and I am walking back to his house" In a neighborhood that had 13 robberies ALL COMMITTED BY YOUNG BLACK MEN, in 8 months, it is not unreasonable for the local neighborhood watch to ask a question. It is unreasonable for that question to be met by a sucker punch and a MMA beatdown. I guess the lesson here is If your going to beat up the little hispanic guy, make sure hes unarmed first.

..this may or may be an accurate assessment of what transpired....we will never know

If Zimmerman approached a white guy and the fore mentioned robberies were performed by white guys would that be racism on part of Zimmerman, what if they were Asian and the crimes were committed by Asians, same question....

MTUpower · #**291** 07-15-2013, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

No one has a clue about what GZ said to Martin at any point in this. GZ has clearly been playing his cards very close to his chest. He did not want to accept responsibility for anything in this drama, he wanted to get off. There is no evidence that I've heard that in any way backs up the 'surprised GZ, sucker punched him' line. It's all on the word of GZ.

I believe TM's girlfriend. I have little doubt that GZ's attitude and approach were at least somewhat menacing. After all, the little chits always get away with it. But not this time, uh-huh, George Zimmerman, protector of decency and the American Way was on the job!

Yeah- I've got a gun so I'll let you get close enough to break my nose and then get into a full mount so you can pummel my head before I decide to pull out my gun.

Really? You think that's how it went down? That'll be 2 votes for that strange unlikely view...

MTUpower · #**292** 07-15-2013, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

His head didn't look badly abused in the jailhouse video. But apparently there was some damage. The officer had no basis not to accept Z's explanation of events. I suspect there was indeed a scuffle but none of the details are clear. I have no trouble accepting that TM was getting the better of him in a scuffle. He was a young athlete from a cultural group in which youth rough-housing and hard play produces capable fighters. By all accounts, Zimmerman was not. His MMA teacher could barely contain his contempt for him. No surprise. A man with solid martial arts skills would have been unlikely to end up in Z's predicament.

No bruises at the hands of TM clear Zimmeman for having provoked the event. Zimmerman was the first threat.

Um... TM had bruised knuckles, GZ had a broken nose. News flash from May 15 to CMAC2012.

Botnst · #**293** 07-15-2013, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

No one has a clue about what GZ said to Martin at any point in this. GZ has clearly been playing his cards very close to his chest. He did not want to accept responsibility for anything in this drama, he wanted to get off. There is no evidence that I've heard that in any way backs up the 'surprised GZ, sucker punched him' line. It's all on the word of GZ.

I believe TM's girlfriend. I have little doubt that GZ's attitude and approach were at least somewhat menacing. After all, the little chits always get away with it. But not this time, uh-huh, George Zimmerman, protector of decency and the American Way was on the job!

Glad you are able to mind-read Z after the fact. Is this ability limited to living people or would you mind channeling M? I'd like to know what he was thinking, too. By knowing what both were thinking of the incident, through your impressive offices, we may come to know the truth.

MTUpower · #**294** 07-15-2013, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pooka

I think in this case, if it were to take place, the lady would be found insane.

But the larger point is: If she were insane to begin with will this push her over the edge and make her think it was OK to blast away just because she was convinced her life was in danger?

But that being said: You can't stop crazy, and when real crazy enters the picture then no amount of logic is going to chase it away.

On this we agree.

cmac2012 · #**295** 07-15-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Yeah, I've got a gun so let's get in a fist fight.

I've seen some stupid people with guns but I've never seen or heard of THAT stupid. Is that how you think it went down? Really? Let's take a poll and guess how many agree with you....

It's hard to know what happened. There is a good chance that TM became aware of the gun but jumped on GZ before he had the chance to wield it.

OTOH, it seems unlikely that TM wouldn't have been going for the gun, pinning the gun from the git-go if he knew where it was or if it was there period.

Point is, it never would have been more than a fistfight if Z hadn't brought the gun. He brought the deadly force.

Botnst · #**296** 07-15-2013, 10:36 PM

Never mind that 6 women heard all of the evidence in excruciating detail, and arguments from both sides, and completely disagree with you.

You are fortunate to be able to mindread, a gift unavailable to the rest of us plodding sods.

ruchase · #**297** 07-15-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Walking in the rain; looking into homes and cutting in between residences in an area where break-ins have occurred is not suspicious?? That would be probable cause to an LEO. How do you know GZ's instincts were "clearly wrong"?? How do you know that TM was not about to/ considering break(ing) into a house? Did you read TM's mind that night?

Based on who's account? GZ could've made that up to justify his pursuit.

AFAIK, there were no eye witnesses until after GZ and TM were already fighting.

MTUpower · #**298** 07-15-2013, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

It's hard to know what happened. There is a good chance that TM became aware of the gun but jumped on GZ before he had the chance to wield it.

OTOH, it seems unlikely that TM wouldn't have been going for the gun, pinning the gun from the git-go if he knew where it was or if it was there period.

Point is, it never would have been more than a fistfight if Z hadn't brought the gun. He brought the deadly force.

Not the point at all- who is stupid enough to let someone you are suspicious of get close enough to break your nose when you have a gun?

Like I said- I've seen some stupid people- but that is not a likely explanation. Possible? yes. Probable? NO. You know it as well but your passion for "black justice" (or whatever you want to call it)is clouding your logic and making your anger greater. Not a good combination when seeking reality.

Botnst · #**299** 07-15-2013, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruchase

Based on who's account? GZ could've made that up to justify his pursuit.

AFAIK, there were no eye witnesses until after GZ and TM were already fighting.

Or it maybe true.

Please get back to the forum after you sit through 3 weeks of testimony and argument and tell us why the jury was wrong.

P.C. · #**300** 07-15-2013, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Walking in the rain; looking into homes and cutting in between residences in an area where break-ins have occurred is not suspicious?? That would be probable cause to an LEO. How do you know GZ's instincts were "clearly wrong"?? How do you know that TM was not about to/ considering break(ing) into a house? Did you read TM's mind that night?

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area...

Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

Dispatcher: OK... Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

Dispatcher: OK--you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse...

Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the--he's near the clubhouse right now?

Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

Dispatcher: OK.

Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens.

Dispatcher: Late teens ok.

Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.

Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok

Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman: Okay. These *******s they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. **** he's running.

Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman: The back entrance...****ing [unintelligible]

Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok

Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?

Zimmerman: George...He ran.

Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?

Zimmerman: Zimmerman

Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?

Zimmerman: [redacted]

Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.

Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?

Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?

Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.

Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?

Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted]

Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.

Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I'll let them know to call you when you're in the area.

Zimmerman: Thanks.

Dispatcher: You're welcome